From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Default custom file was: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 08:21:28 +0100 Message-ID: References: <740A136F-8710-4F4C-BFC1-A3DB418447F4@gmail.com> <87zgoc7u6k.fsf@gmail.com> <83iluzbqcr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r19nxx7x.fsf@gmail.com> <878rvv9esx.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fsq28x4l.fsf@yahoo.com> <87bl0q8vfa.fsf@yahoo.com> <83pmp69vsu.fsf@gnu.org> <8735m17l8c.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e49d005d4e4b915" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28445"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , Robert Pluim , Drew Adams , emacs-devel To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 06 08:24:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n5N86-0007Fo-Pa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 08:24:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43948 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5N85-0004aG-Ng for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 02:24:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48038) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5N6M-0003Na-4q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 02:22:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::536] (port=35731 helo=mail-ed1-x536.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5N66-00058v-4h; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 02:22:11 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id y22so6165803edq.2; Wed, 05 Jan 2022 23:21:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZJrhVkl3lQVlIoHRk1ay5HK5+2C9cDs5UtOonDN/mnY=; b=RT1RaRHShHsvFkkXCwqQj/981spQAG62SBt3Efv+wA9RT1M6+YWkBKB0kMRXt+Xbog PdmyLP6T4/OqF9pVmQlDmGmnFSy246yb/9So8xQMoGBi/pH72+KvefciYRZDc6FVxUK6 CNZNnTot2R7gR9tvAMkTpETRfPFIqUraI0auD5GF+BdvxnXyZdopncbbIxK3p0/i2+3V IoQr0VPPb3U0YJuq9g9AQNcM7NylDMVY7Q4hV0CxM6LLLkISo8VEzvGsiMXhpSJZfz1X a+tpfzXYe6lb6y6X6lk3G7l16vWlrlHSOGn5VKT/7D9WUPgnwffL0plNCRiZOrFOFjmv H+zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZJrhVkl3lQVlIoHRk1ay5HK5+2C9cDs5UtOonDN/mnY=; b=fctY3pXox9DRH2fvGcHYSOt3xqVfyJrUdT2LZx+WbGpGSrBqF7cqK3gT0CxDFmHQ2J UTYNBON9Tc9dfmte5LVYERu2QzTrKfd+LHhhSnnzTHFix3pX7JJ2mC98BmWBUzXhnbUY Z4WfH1on534eJzJIbt2shRiChC+xrzRkqLp+CuJXWKDBS2+CF1W9F17FFFkiDv6RFYJK LSLNkTEF04xi7YqagSZrFiv9psoA+0jSV0K5IrnW0SEbFcBFoRImafMYFL+o8IVkVaRN YNyiuaMpxG8CqqXoCM5yIFKXiwFegeheoL5V+lRfzJFogR3SdhsjFjYN20jPMrmRW158 o35Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JuAu4fxpK02OFHjl3UFPZG6EEfHbj2RTok14m67ee0eU0uI/p jnrz78pmNq17JrY/kz16Y8FOSo6VLR/1lsthbCg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8s6I4hMtdg3eytZXQPKsGxqkW6wSlqUME4ohpuiQbZf3X0F6i5UFrNLmPdV5QowIlydF+kZIBy+EwH0FrS3A= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f02:: with SMTP id z2mr35851309eji.499.1641453714293; Wed, 05 Jan 2022 23:21:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8735m17l8c.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::536 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::536; envelope-from=paaguti@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x536.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284289 Archived-At: --0000000000008e49d005d4e4b915 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > This is a bit long, but I think it's relatively succinct. Thanks for putting everything together :-) looks like a 'letter to Santa' or to the three Wise Men, which would be just in time in places like Spain ;-) > 1. Whether to load `custom-file' automatically after the init file is an open question. Agree, but it would be a nice place, right? You have setup all the code you use in your emacs, you are sure that all variables have been defined and then you initialize them with the values you want/have customized > 2. That should never be done if it's already been loaded... 100%, see my patch as a simple way of accomplishing that > 3. ...(Obviously this can only be the case when it's not the same file as the init file.) Hmm, right, I was missing that part :-) > #3 is a no-op if the `custom-file' is empty... Right, I was assuming that, but it's better if we write this out > 4. ... Why? Just as you might want to explicitly control where/when, and how many times,... That sounds fair > 5. `emacs -q' and `emacs -Q' should not load the `custom-file'. So we put in in the same (progn) that loads the init file > In addition, we should add a new switch that suppresses (only) loading of the `custom-file' Don't get that one > 6. `custom-file' should have a default value/location. Jup > We could, however, keep the longstanding nil-means-use-init-file behavior, so that if you _explicitly_ set `custom-file' to nil it's the same as setting it to the value of `user-init-file'. I'd favour that > 7. Suppose a longtime user doesn't read the NEWS etc., and _does nothing_. What happens then? Is there a problem? > 8. #7 is the case some people have howled about. Is it really a problem? It could be, in this scenario: Good analysis... Thx, /PA On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 01:37, Po Lu wrote: > Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez writes: > > > If there's something bad, I missed it. It's been in my init.el for > > ages ;-) However, providing for emacs to do it might help people > > separate init.el from custom.el which I think is good > > Isn't it already separate if you want to? IOW, can't you already change > the custom file? > > > And making sure it is loaded by default after init.el may help > > debugging, right? I mean, you know when the customisations were > > loaded, and that may be more than what we have today, right? > > I don't think it would be easier for debugging. > > Thanks. > -- Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden, Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden Georg Kreisler --0000000000008e49d005d4e4b915 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> This is a bit long, but I think it'= ;s relatively succinct.

Thanks for putting everything together :-) l= ooks like a 'letter to Santa' or to the three Wise Men, which would= be just in time in places like Spain ;-)

> 1. Whether to lo= ad `custom-file' automatically after the init file is an open question.=
Agree, but it would be a nice place, right? You have setup all the code= you use in your emacs, you are sure that all variables have been defined a= nd then you initialize them with the values you want/have customized
<= div>
> 2. That should never be done if it's already been loaded..= .
100%, see my patch as a simple way of accomplishing that
> 3. ...(Obviously this can only be the case when it's not the same= file as the init file.)=C2=A0<= /span>
Hmm, right, I was missing that part :-)

> #3 is = a no-op if the `custom-file' is empty...
Right, I was assumin= g that, but it's better if we write this out

> 4. ...=C2=A0Wh= y?=C2=A0 Just as you might want to explicitly control where/when, and how m= any times,...
That sounds fair

> 5. `emacs -q' and = `emacs -Q' should not load the `custom-file'.=C2=A0
So we= put in in the same (progn) that loads the init file

> In additio= n, we should add a new switch that suppresses (only) loading of the `custom= -file'
Don't get that one

> 6. `custom-f= ile' should have a default value/location.
Jup

> We= could, however, keep the longstanding nil-means-use-init-file behavior, so= that if you _explicitly_ set `custom-file' to nil it's the same as= setting it to the value of `user-init-file'.=C2=A0

I'd favour that

> 7. Suppose a longtime user doesn't read the NEWS etc.= , and _does nothing_.=C2=A0 What happens then?=C2=A0 Is there a problem?> 8. #7 is the case some people have howled about.=C2=A0 Is it really a= problem?=C2=A0 It could be, in this scenario:

Good analysis...
<= br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
Thx, /PA

On Th= u, 6 Jan 2022 at 01:37, Po Lu <lua= ngruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pedro Andres Arand= a Gutierrez <paag= uti@gmail.com> writes:

> If there's something bad, I missed it. It's been in my init.el= for
> ages ;-) However, providing for emacs to do it might help people
> separate init.el from custom.el which I think is good

Isn't it already separate if you want to?=C2=A0 IOW, can't you alre= ady change
the custom file?

> And making sure it is loaded by default after init.el may help
> debugging, right? I mean, you know when the customisations were
> loaded, and that may be more than what we have today, right?

I don't think it would be easier for debugging.

Thanks.


--
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um = gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler
--0000000000008e49d005d4e4b915--