Re: Re Re: Why not include all ELPA packages in an Emacs release?

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com>]

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Hi

On Wed, 29 May 2024 at 22:36, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Message-ID: <86r0dksk1x.fsf@gnu.org>
> >
> >>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> >>>
> >>> > If there are packages on ELPA which we consider to be a must for
> users
> >>> > (I don't think there are, but maybe I'm forgetting something), lets
> >>> > add them to core instead.
> >>>
> >>> If Emacs considers in-buffer completion an important feature, then I'd
> >>> say corfu and cape are must.  vertico and marginalia are also must in
> my
> >>> book since they offer a better experience with vertical minibuffer
> >>> completion.
> >
> >> If people want them, and their developers agree, we can add them.
> >
> > <irony>At this point, why not company, which BTW works nicely both on
> > windows and -nw Emacs?</irony>
>
> I unironically think that this might be a better choice.
>

Hmm... nice to hear... thanks :-)

>  > <seriously>For every package you think of integrating, there will be a
> lot
> > of people how use a different package for the functionality, so this
> spells
> > exchanges without end here and a lot of users frustrated in the world
> > outside the list </seriously>
>
> Bundling a package with Emacs is not the same as enabling it by default.
>
+1

> I guess the exception are major modes, where it makes sense to have
> these added to auto-mode-alist, but otherwise something like Company
> shouldn't be enabled by default.
>
Couldn't agree more...

>
> >>> And while we're at it: There are sometimes requests for adding AUCTeX
> to
> >>> core.  Do you have an opinion about that?
> >>
> >>I don't mind.  But let's hear what others think.
> >
> > Well, AUCTeX was so feature-bloated that made me start using vanilla
> Emacs
> > and writing the things I really needed myself. So grateful it existed,
> > because it made my elisp evolve :-)
>
> This sounds like a LaTeX/AUCTeX-specific issue.  IIUC, you prefer the
> built-in latex-mode that AUCTeX supersedes, right?  Or what do you mean
> by bloated?
>

Jup, that was a purely LaTeX issue. And yes, I didn't have time to learn
all the specifics
of AUCTeX and did some customisation + yasnippets to get my phD thesis
written.
At that time, a switch from MSWord/OpenOffice to LaTeX was churning all my
free CPU cycles,
because I had work and real life in parallel.

> > Now seriously, One of the nicest things in Emacs is the package repo(s).
> > I have the Emacs I want because we have use-package (and that is not so
> > long ago)
> > to make our lives (relatively) easy. And I dread to think what would
> happen
> > WTR to size of the distributable object (.app in macos, .rpm/.deb/.snap
> in
> > Linux,
> > etc.) if we start shipping everything in it.
>
> There are still plenty of cases where people cannot just install
> packages over the net and are stuck with whatever Emacs is bundled with.
>

Good point...


> ELPA remains useful to upgrade packages that don't depend on new core
> features, but having "blessed" packages bundled without having to
> explain to new-comers "well yes, Emacs can do that but you have to
> install foo, bar and baaz first" (here "foo", "bar" and "baaz" are more
> often than not some weird names that they cannot remember in the first
> place) is helpful and underappreciated by many.
>

I get your point... and right, there are situations where you just can't
get the
packages from the Internet.

WRT the package size, I wouldn't worry that much.  Even a large package
> like AUCTeX is just under 10MB in my /elpa/ directory.  The mean package
> side on ELPA is about 100-150KB.  Packages like Debian that don't
> bundled .el sources (instead just using .elc) by default might be even
> better off.
>

But just keep in mind that there are situations, where the platform must
deploy
Emacs on, might not be as relaxed WRT disk space... And it's not about a
specific
package, it's about a trickle of packages becoming a flood...

> My .2 cents
>
> --
>         Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
>

Best, /PA
-- 
Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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