From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MINI-PATCH: add how to turn auto-completion in test buffers off Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:45:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86y19t55hs.fsf@gnu.org> <86a5m856co.fsf@gnu.org> <868r1p1u21.fsf@gnu.org> <86zfu5z93q.fsf@gnu.org> <86a5m4ytzn.fsf@gnu.org> <9ABD0212-9EC4-4F3F-9E7C-46DF6ADBD451@gmail.com> <86le5nybxa.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000004c9ef90615ba1015" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32182"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 10 10:46:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ruTbB-0008Fy-SX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:46:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ruTac-0005ql-Uy; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 04:45:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ruTaW-0005pd-3Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 04:45:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ruTaT-0001He-Hx; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 04:45:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-56845954ffeso8651775a12.2; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1712738742; x=1713343542; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ErYrQSvS7oaMO/sXujyUqFi/a8Fz9DvWzP9lKW2ZwgY=; b=NlUP9avck0g/pmicUv/9q98f9TO6KvJfq7Lrfk/9WcRwIQGD6n3ODxe/LXlPQtyrXq STDtLR87zOFgKH1Y7gVkpiEHNlOhfcRJWMxI7K0PDLybS9Vv/8uIQeP4sQCAXim0rX7F jcTTu2bypuAOD5h6AlP9dNm30a5/b9UrQSC7QJkl8cUyobN5R9Gjhj3ovSlSgsbc/smK 2llpxpv9ZVeppjxbMoSl829odfy6JeZ+W5yfyQnLAcX5eGvAX1nhfUj6+x8CfJQh8+oc d1SVYYqsDuCZk/4MJ4BJPJF/xmzMm9ZMHCtelqQRc0xiYtZCwRw80OPEpx9usPttN/pW 2axw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1712738742; x=1713343542; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ErYrQSvS7oaMO/sXujyUqFi/a8Fz9DvWzP9lKW2ZwgY=; b=tcZgNKWQYvsAPqM3l/76YQZtfkKcy8OZT4HXw55ThcxXQ+HY+BOpDHXnvXW1G4guPr 2/1b2tU8ZXOLoqSZVrGrXnEKgosk4gyYginCJjyPO1/R/OeSRFl/KXGi/geyFLSJGK9F 2UEkmwk2/WygDylA+av1DBIrhj4R4bc7bLwxlcZrajo3lr8Gwrl8/kUWRIBvrQaTk3cL FJUsc7NivC9yYva1nSlmRlK6vqvFnXLr8ekMaLenjKUzuLGu0CFGcRkfdiFpwZtS1iUE G1YZJrTaAwJxVqr14zgg63U9u2ewewTAwcej7daV/8L4SeqCGs9vvBTZos/ZbcKXlPOh gHNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywux6kXzXq99ZSl32n6WLF/oyOjQgEJfQQZm1S171bhPKIbFY4r qKkzcLoDTt2Ci5jS4nqHSVKArBrUcHrf/XNHfvsgXfqMB4q8G5kUOvwHcyE5msURxEw+9Sxiev/ GDJRC73v4scaveGeBgPn58XjTQ6wfRK40 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFrrB/4xfKBbrGIj4j/6o5SwLNsYNk3uJPt+HoOtgDs75frV3gQVo8sa+rivxeinLzo2e6V6JEyh1DpztOxlTA= X-Received: by 2002:a50:8d13:0:b0:56e:77a8:93d6 with SMTP id s19-20020a508d13000000b0056e77a893d6mr1311134eds.3.1712738741809; Wed, 10 Apr 2024 01:45:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52f; envelope-from=paaguti@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317652 Archived-At: --0000000000004c9ef90615ba1015 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c9ef70615ba1013" --0000000000004c9ef70615ba1013 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, Maybe the attached patch to the doc can help other people and show why I was confused. It's the first time I have to disable a feature globally to then activate it for specific modes. To a possible question about the motivation: I use .txt for quick scribbles, logs etc. where completion-at-point stands in the way of productivity, but I might give it a try in.. say.. org-mode. On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 at 07:22, Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez < paaguti@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Eli, > > On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 at 19:57, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez >> > Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2024 18:56:25 +0200 >> > Cc: emacs-devel >> > >> > > We don't have to agree: this is why you can customize Emacs to work = as >> > > you'd like. The defaults, by contrast, are set to fit what most use= rs >> > > want. So we will change the default only if enough people come up >> > > complaining about the current default and preferably provide reasons >> > > other than just annoyance. >> > >> > Let=E2=80=99s agree on not agreeing. I just would like you to understa= nd that >> it=E2=80=99s not =E2=80=9Cannoyance=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99m trying to expre= ss. I=E2=80=99m just trying to voice my >> concern that this auto-completion may impact on some people's ability to >> use Emacs. Concentration deficits are no joke. >> >> IME, these completions are more or less the de-facto standard nowadays >> in many text-editing environments, so I don't think many people will >> be distracted to such a great degree. I'd rather think they should >> expect it. But time will tell who is right. >> > > Maybe our backgrounds are different. I have dealt all my life with people > with different degrees of ability, due to condition, age, etc. > Very brilliant people, indeed, who do not shine as much as they could, > because "not many people are distracted by ". > Attention deficits are no joke. > > >> > On an Emacsish plane, what puzzles me is that the only way I=E2=80=99m= able to >> disable this feature is in early-init.el because the auto-completion >> function is added when initializing text-mode. >> >> You should be able to disable it at any point, provided that you use >> Customize or setopt. If this somehow doesn't work, please submit a >> bug report with all the details. >> > > I'm on it... > > >> >> > And I=E2=80=99m worried that a feature with such an impact was so litt= le >> documented. >> >> It is documented in the same section where Text Mode is described. >> But if you have suggestions for improvements in the documentation of >> this feature, please send them. >> > > BR/PA > -- > Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden, > Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden > Georg Kreisler > > Headaches with a Juju log: > unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should ru= n > a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet > > --=20 Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden, Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden Georg Kreisler Headaches with a Juju log: unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet --0000000000004c9ef70615ba1013 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again,

Maybe the attached patc= h to the doc can help other people and show why I was confused. It's th= e first time I have to disable a feature globally to then activate it for s= pecific modes.

To a possible question about the motivation:

I use .txt for quick scribbles, logs etc. where comp= letion-at-point stands in the way of productivity, but I might=C2=A0give it= a try in.. say.. org-mode.

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 at 07:22, Pedro A= ndres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gma= il.com> wrote:
Hi Eli,

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 at 19:57,= Eli Zaretskii <eliz@g= nu.org> wrote:
> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2024 18:56:25 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
> > We don't have to agree: this is why you can customize Emacs t= o work as
> > you'd like.=C2=A0 The defaults, by contrast, are set to fit w= hat most users
> > want.=C2=A0 So we will change the default only if enough people c= ome up
> > complaining about the current default and preferably provide reas= ons
> > other than just annoyance.
>
> Let=E2=80=99s agree on not agreeing. I just would like you to understa= nd that it=E2=80=99s not =E2=80=9Cannoyance=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99m trying to = express. I=E2=80=99m just trying to voice my concern that this auto-complet= ion may impact on some people's ability to use Emacs. Concentration def= icits are no joke.

IME, these completions are more or less the de-facto standard nowadays
in many text-editing environments, so I don't think many people will be distracted to such a great degree.=C2=A0 I'd rather think they shoul= d
expect it.=C2=A0 But time will tell who is right.

=
Maybe our backgrounds are different. I have dealt all my life wi= th people with different degrees of ability, due to condition, age, etc.
Very brilliant people, indeed, who do not shine as much as they cou= ld, because "not many people are distracted by <you name the featur= e>".
Attention deficits are no joke.
=C2=A0
> On an Emacsish pla= ne, what puzzles me is that the only way I=E2=80=99m able to disable this f= eature is in early-init.el because the auto-completion function is added wh= en initializing text-mode.

You should be able to disable it at any point, provided that you use
Customize or setopt.=C2=A0 If this somehow doesn't work, please submit = a
bug report with all the details.

I'= m on it...
=C2=A0

> And I=E2=80=99m worried that a feature with such an impact was so litt= le documented.

It is documented in the same section where Text Mode is described.
But if you have suggestions for improvements in the documentation of
this feature, please send them.

BR/PA
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Fragen sind nicht da, um be= antwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should r= un a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet



--
Fragen sind nicht da, um bea= ntwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
= Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should ru= n a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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