From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:14:00 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83zhbcg6s4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1wng2ki.fsf@linaro.org> <83o8rrenn1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000464d105a3c038d4" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="102625"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , =?UTF-8?B?QWxleCBCZW5uw6ll?= , ulm@gentoo.org, EMACS development team To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 21 00:14:50 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQegk-000QSM-94 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 00:14:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43276 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQegi-0002K0-2m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:14:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQegE-0001tj-5I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:14:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQegD-00051S-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:14:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb29.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29]:41385) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQegA-0004wn-MH; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:14:14 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb29.google.com with SMTP id a9so6281225ybc.8; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:14:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jrouy3IM2Cr8iPV3FEAVN3RQWfyPQHBvK+NJA/cfLSk=; b=aLzbBSKuDWba2Po2BhfOtRCV+nBRx45YxMK6xkv56uoZvThE2ox4ns2OUScPmRN1Pg kxYbw0zecuSOOtuUg2hYh2ikd7wwQ0KhiaiJCuMEVAuNFFCXGO6EBLY4XM24sQiCqnla v8Y1B2Ew1bHluwxc4M1DFy+zL749GKZs8FPDLbPzRxu+ol/0eGsFOEuVumAe2DLdU0RI kjfsHHQ+Vq6tczu5GE8wJyEUmgV3Ak/GkItzbIDam/nVB5c3Fw9k21jC8pSt/y4SuPFn DCk1sfaeBlQj+XNSNxfAaJn1IB7WcYG1UsJ6aZ9xopxhB6LeXoF2jPvBu5+RqOrCrux/ Dzbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jrouy3IM2Cr8iPV3FEAVN3RQWfyPQHBvK+NJA/cfLSk=; b=NJMjaTeiYf6/SZeviM8Jyqn83avEkkdUB0x20mcxOrUNkpeeIJdRnreQ42TZnuM4Wy DCnHVcnGFLjkJznUO0gA14Z3sNMST9NVV1t65rJEVJ1Q9ofV+duFP7NWRmR989P4ReJl 74dgXtL50/iuMJAi2WDIGR7yqn66D0T7OvXhieff0PFm+DPZf3U2kqJJlCVwpgU8clxm mP211Id+DnqtXQ9pMC9ljIMrkUvomPun0aKoWi0BNv7JOba+9AaJExdMW5TA9EVpE8AZ PrKv4HNcy6Z/rfEtOTkSGkxKJxCdln+T+KyRHgOZApftRbNjt93cl0EEgGaRN3gcKcRc i0IA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubBitfxXn6NDrsAuTPJsbVSb0/XsFlxS1uZFT1EDnHJ094S4iFQ UN+gXAm7x/FDC4Dt6rRqgx80+KSdZleEchZmhkfkU1JTfXI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ4qhCwc3yCfeqI/lvdYf3v4ZfCXrsgY9XqvH3LeU4O9L5+SK7+gHXLDC9jf2Jnop6hUZRXYOQfZAPa39lYxGg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7bc7:: with SMTP id w190mr22354105ybc.413.1587420852411; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:14:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb29.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247428 Archived-At: --0000000000000464d105a3c038d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" As Eli said, Electron is covered by an MIT license. It describes itself with this sentence: Build cross-platform desktop apps with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. It accomplishes this by uses Node.js, a JavaScript runtime built on the V8 javascript engine of Chrome. Each Electron app comes with its own integrated copy of Chromium (the "free" parts of Google's Chrome web browser, released under a combination of 3-clause BSD, MIT, [L]GPL, and MS's Shared Source licenses). Without intensional malice, I'd call it a Frankenstein's monster of both code and license. Its major features are (in my personal opinion): Google invests effort into making it function well across major platforms, it's "free enough" that it can be used by various open, free, and commercial projects, and it lets people make "desktop apps" using the widely-known web stack of JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. It can use native code via Node's analog of an FFI. This combination is so widely spread and optimized at this point that it's possible to get decent performance alongside gui, threaded, network, etc. code. It also has a reputation for being fairly bloated, in large part because each Electron app brings its own copy of chromium, V8, node, etc. Similarly, Electron apps are rarely well-integrated into a particular OS, since they're mostly WWW technology; whether this bothers users or not is currently a shifting topic, as ever more new users are used to using web-based tech for much of their computer needs. I hope that helps, ~Chad On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 7:03 PM Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > software world has today is Electron (which still doesn't cover > everything > > emacs supports). > > Is Electron free software? If so, what is its license, > and what does Emacs do that Electron does not support? > (If there are lots of things, a few important ones would > be enough of an answer.) > > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > --0000000000000464d105a3c038d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As Eli said, Electron is covered by an MIT license. It des= cribes itself with this sentence:

=C2=A0 Build cross-platform= desktop apps with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS.

It accompl= ishes this by uses Node.js, a JavaScript runtime built on the V8 javascript= engine of Chrome. Each Electron app comes with=C2=A0its own integrated cop= y of Chromium (the "free" parts of Google's Chrome web browse= r, released under a combination of 3-clause BSD, MIT, [L]GPL, and MS's = Shared Source licenses). Without intensional malice, I'd call it a Fran= kenstein's monster of both code and license.

I= ts major features are (in my personal opinion): Google invests effort into = making it function well across major platforms, it's "free enough&= quot; that it can be used by various open, free, and commercial=C2=A0projec= ts, and it lets people make "desktop apps" using the widely-known= web stack of JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. It can use native code via Node= 9;s analog of an FFI. This combination is so widely spread and optimized at= this point that it's possible to get decent performance alongside gui,= threaded, network, etc. code. It also has a reputation for being fairly bl= oated, in large part because each Electron app brings its own copy of chrom= ium, V8, node, etc. Similarly, Electron apps are rarely well-integrated int= o a particular OS, since they're mostly WWW technology; whether this bo= thers users or not is currently a shifting topic, as ever more new users ar= e used to using web-based tech for much of their computer needs.
=
I hope that helps,
~Chad


On Fr= i, Apr 17, 2020 at 7:03 PM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consi= der=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > software world has today is Electron (which still doesn't c= over everything
=C2=A0 > emacs supports).

Is Electron free software?=C2=A0 If so, what is its license,
and what does Emacs do that Electron does not support?
(If there are lots of things, a few important ones would
be enough of an answer.)


--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)


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