From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 17:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8fnh1h2.fsf@web.de> <83mt0zs9rc.fsf@gnu.org> <0a968a4e1b267c0f15dd237e6ea12a709fc06d5e.camel@yandex.ru> <838rcisj7o.fsf@gnu.org> <6537fa5fa5c1fe8437ed99ee0988e35895f5a54b.camel@yandex.ru> <8423a35750d8d8e0437c7708f6b4d0bbdfdb7fe0.camel@yandex.ru> <6981052a75913ea435ae2adaccdaa1c66252a6df.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e3c22305fe5a346b" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3423"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Konstantin Kharlamov , eliz@gnu.org, arne_bab@web.de, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alfred M. 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306892 Archived-At: --000000000000e3c22305fe5a346b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HAving arguments on behalf of other people is an unfortunately common conversational trap, especially in asynchronous mediums like mailing lists and forums. As someone who has been following emacs development and recruiting people to help with it for multiple decades, let me say this: there is a common (notorious) belief that contributing is difficult/complex/requiring of confounding steps. The reality has improved a great deal over the pat ~5-6 years (due to heroic efforts of people like Eli, Lars, Stephan, Philip, John, Chong, Stefan -- among others). At the same time, the baseline effort required to participate in "open" development (whatever the term) has dropped considerably, trending strongly towards the sort of "drive by contrib" possibility that is common in many projects. The end result is, I would have to agree, that it is still, at least somewhat "notoriously hard to contribute to emacs". It's moving in a good direction, but the effort surely has headroom left to fill. There are frequent discussions on emacs-devel about new ways to address this issue. I would caution people in this threat against getting caught in yet another such thread, as they tend to consume a lot of oxygen, but that's obviously up to each individual. I hope that helps, ~Chad On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM Alfred M. Szmidt wrot= e: > That's fine, let's not discuss it then. > > You've not explained what is hard, you raised multiple preferences, > but not _why_. Sending an email to emacs-devel@ with a patch, even > without following those eight bullets is not hard -- people seem to be > doing it all the time. > > Your responsibility as a contributor ends as soon as you fixed > whatever issues are raised by the maintainters, and they commit the > patch. There is no need to look at some CI machinery to know if you > screwed up -- it sorta isn't your problem. > > --000000000000e3c22305fe5a346b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HAving arguments on behalf of other people is an unfortuna= tely common conversational trap, especially in asynchronous mediums like ma= iling lists and forums.=C2=A0

As someone who has be= en following emacs development and recruiting people to help with it for mu= ltiple decades, let me say this: there is a common (notorious) belief that = contributing is difficult/complex/requiring of confounding steps. The reali= ty has improved a great deal over the pat ~5-6 years (due to heroic efforts= of people like Eli, Lars, Stephan, Philip, John, Chong, Stefan -- among ot= hers). At the same time, the baseline effort required to participate in &qu= ot;open" development (whatever the term) has dropped considerably, tre= nding strongly towards the sort of "drive by contrib" possibility= that is common in many projects.

The end re= sult is, I would have to agree, that it is still, at least somewhat "n= otoriously hard to contribute to emacs". It's moving in a good dir= ection, but the effort surely has headroom left to fill.

There are frequent discussions on emacs-devel about new ways to addr= ess this issue. I would caution people in this threat against getting caugh= t in yet another such thread, as they tend to consume a lot of oxygen, but = that's obviously up to each individual.

I hope= that helps,
~Chad




On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM Alfred M. Szmidt <ams@gnu.org> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0That's fine, let's no= t discuss it then.

You've not explained what is hard, you raised multiple preferences,
but not _why_.=C2=A0 Sending an email to emacs-devel@ with a patch, even without following those eight bullets is not hard -- people seem to be
doing it all the time.

Your responsibility as a contributor ends as soon as you fixed
whatever issues are raised by the maintainters, and they commit the
patch.=C2=A0 There is no need to look at some CI machinery to know if you screwed up -- it sorta isn't your problem.

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