From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel] Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:47:00 -0700 Message-ID: References: <874kb1gjxs.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1e4fueq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6krg8n5.fsf@yahoo.com> <1814c1e5-5085-bfee-9bc8-2cc66949e785@yandex.ru> <871r63g12g.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wnnveg30.fsf@yahoo.com> <10b4782c-ba2a-4d98-8934-258a1203055b@yandex.ru> <871r62ec1h.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y28al837.fsf@gmail.com> <87tuiycr5e.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tuiyl2w1.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmtmclds.fsf@yahoo.com> <87pmtmkwyb.fsf@gmail.com> <87lf4acf1c.fsf@yahoo.com> <87lf4akq0k.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004f431605cb6eb5fd" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22952"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , EMACS development team To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 07 23:47:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNiwe-0005mL-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:47:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51538 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNiwc-00037h-GB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:47:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNiw1-0002M6-Ch for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::232]:46744) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNivz-0004d4-2H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id w4so805321ljh.13 for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:47:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=o2R7vMos+AU8z016CDu3BchZoL1xfBVlIZ2RrRhX1mE=; b=W+pdsXX3tPBU9U81+mW95n2+LqPvBIPBptWPv9Q8kzafxgeZLzEs/PwqYlqvGQPH99 zIPj2PXJfiZHMzd+RoJr7M/XViylVgfaB6sCN82J5OMN/cR5F3Sk1GuZ4KVOgW3zsgSi OOKXImWTHmXSJUkNu+xnhykTGvSdBUaBTIdL9UQYhGCQGIXtuw4EtbPNiaO5+QlUoweA 0XjsTGVmni2IkzJ2FRoVrnr00QkxCb2HWZwOInJqGZgnL2g2W1xRbHvZXMR3PppaXRr3 tGAY2L2IE/mC5j5cOIgiIYBD/jZ9riTMw4eqQyKrNPVEtirNrm/Ro9P6QARKZe69Spv/ hzgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=o2R7vMos+AU8z016CDu3BchZoL1xfBVlIZ2RrRhX1mE=; b=S/GM9+aSvY+gdLoYwP2/pIV+mBP+LZSa5qwPcCL4hPhuNljeJKZYPmRJfr13KJg1l7 emzQPMWWQ23Ujj8Sdw2GpycwK4LX+jrCRX6ro2uRY7Iu3jHus5Rf+WoB1NmWDC8Uggze bJAPt9ngXZVm90eYusCsmP0n6QBBs97NwPmViAd93yifQJ4jYVs654Th41pASQu6tOP0 EdUz4Cp7/t4SeQb6hMmMKWWEt99FYlFFC2icSrQ//enB0f+T2ofCSWsugrgn94hZSYxb PyHmFe/RsdC7/xPg8Leo5ttJUpIuLiMMDeM0nnsDX2Tdg/nBOy8w8XGnZZNVrMM8lnHO Az0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531eprv+JoUGDZpblG3YVuqFBg/7eluecPyPRAo5CZ408l46knrJ ikD6tEgcH62NrneIOSHkmuC3LRL3PJsmuD7T6ZA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJziFCUdQi0HncGfCo5xqNcNTAQIfwPuSX+6NB9bZhCA9+iFjZEiwuxO+YnFa0wLWrH7XKw2sj5nlrced7dQCy8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7c0a:: with SMTP id x10mr276846ljc.340.1631051232262; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87lf4akq0k.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::232; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x232.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274291 Archived-At: --0000000000004f431605cb6eb5fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 2:33 AM Tim Cross wrote: > > Perhaps you did not, but what most people do when confronted by a new > > tool used for a certain task is to look up the relevant documentation on > > the tool, and to give it a thorough reading, before actually using the > > tool. > > > > Definitely not my experience and I expect if that was the norm, we would > never have coined RTFM. > This particular experience is quite old at this point, but I had occasion to both support Emacs and also be part of the user support system for MIT students for well over a decade. During that time I helped many hundreds of people use emacs without reading the manual, much less a thorough reading. My loose contacts there suggest that the situation is still pretty much the same. Hope that helps, ~Chad --0000000000004f431605cb6eb5fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 2:33 AM Tim Cr= oss <theophilusx@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> = Perhaps you did not, but what most people do when confronted by a new
> tool used for a certain task is to look up the relevant documentation = on
> the tool, and to give it a thorough reading, before actually using the=
> tool.
>

Definitely not my experience and I expect if that was the norm, we would never have coined RTFM.

This particular= experience is quite old at this point, but I had occasion to both support = Emacs and also be part of the user support system for MIT students for well= over a decade. During that time I helped many hundreds of people use emacs= without reading the manual, much less a thorough reading. My loose contact= s there suggest that the situation is still pretty much the same.

Hope that helps,
~Chad
=C2=A0
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