From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:00:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58533.871640.683323@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001850cc05b08e325f" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4446"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Dmitry Gutov , EMACS development team , npostavs@gmail.com, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, Stefan Monnier To: "T.V Raman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 23:07:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjJo-000133-2T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 23:07:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38560 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjJn-0004oy-42 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:07:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjDj-0007xk-DG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:01:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]:40916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjDe-00084U-0Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id k2so2330381ybp.7 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:00:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=skQdoRW+SvAuo9amcSAPjOsOlhRMLE1Kyf1WWpi28Mc=; b=LJSA9/3PzEJpT7q/z435R9qgfFBQr/eg8BSWoJOf2ancfcZMLoXbbbpI7SnW0JoMB7 gQpeW09088ZM6DJ0sZW/hicBM5T59C5ov7as8gGfksh5RcvA/2coGV0Mczl98cTMQtS2 nLwrIYd+J06K4u5qVo96aXbYrJwvjssyXVJWfh7IRFc+coCMAfo8wYnCUms/uxyrbP3n wFGrZQXikBjcO+yI0oBPIV7njRGYoJsP75stSfmSUvbY+M5EEU9Q3VYXrLkswch005kP /bJ++EVyAuXsBzSX19FmPgW2haVnlhobZpt9K8WWGFtMeyCWFASWe6SoUm4bl6gfB+OI VI4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=skQdoRW+SvAuo9amcSAPjOsOlhRMLE1Kyf1WWpi28Mc=; b=Iin1RsrTxflnlCRl6O5dtUJIhtJtb3GbCkNyj9WHWk1wYfQI3px4kQRISlPWdjdrcb idSFkRhimuHzoa22PgSX6yk/ZTEC51ZKgX87gmebvOZkzJvB+uuONQsFuDaJdVMFET7Y iKhH8zJbdnCGX1dbheziYfAvkW3zzY78WrHt4925si1iqc/WQr0FVtiZs2irisofQqc7 7GHwdISig2f6/U+GsfgoLL7WSudYo3kv4MYSEowddP63ATwou9WxZwRnRUKO2pfU+1TJ 24/nCyKaILkBtpU3HpJrFc5gULotqqO6av/n3BZk5ursLcK5PKcEyC5x1h/T+p2vOZO1 r1Tg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533mOE34my62wtgPfR6a1pEvHXq9PnSlSDEgy7TDL3b6RHaaiwH6 +kK9XQb3nsoyDMtnfV2qMVHuyK8U+Uiq9cnxcLs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0a4Osh5niIghtgpbSbPpXBMsDTpBssLbMLlkTZk5je2cDD06nd0Ai1cjQFYdmLBw/3h32UrilUDPWDRkku38= X-Received: by 2002:a25:6883:: with SMTP id d125mr6436547ybc.105.1601499655850; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 14:00:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <24436.58533.871640.683323@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256803 Archived-At: --0000000000001850cc05b08e325f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW, a few weeks back I proposed changing C-z away from suspend-frame for a similar goal, and got generally negative feedback about gui versus terminal differences. The proposal also involved C-S-z, which doesn't work in some terminal environments, so that probably skewed feedback somewhat. >From experience, I've been rebinding C-z (to a keymap) for around 30 years now, and stopped having any trouble with it around 27 years ago. (At the time, I would frequently use both hardware terminals, especially vt-100, vt-101, and vt-220's, and sometimes DOS or OS/9 systems with serial modems.) In practical terms, I suspect the conflict between "C-z is SIGSTOP" and "C-z is undo" is the biggest fault line between "typical personal computer users" and "unix-ish users", and thus is effectively a "third rail" of Emacs HCI discussions. That might just be pessimistic assumptions talking, though. ~Chad --0000000000001850cc05b08e325f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW, a few weeks back I proposed changin= g C-z away from suspend-frame for a similar goal, and got generally negativ= e feedback about gui versus terminal differences. The proposal also involve= d C-S-z, which doesn't work in some terminal=C2=A0environments, so that= probably skewed feedback somewhat.

From experience, I&#= 39;ve been rebinding C-z (to a keymap) for around 30 years now, and stopped= having any trouble with it around 27 years ago. (At the time, I would freq= uently use both hardware terminals, especially vt-100, vt-101, and vt-220&#= 39;s, and sometimes DOS or OS/9 systems with serial modems.)=C2=A0

In practical terms, I suspect the conflict between "C= -z is SIGSTOP" and "C-z is undo" is the biggest fault line b= etween "typical personal computer users" and "unix-ish users= ", and thus is effectively a "third rail" of Emacs HCI discu= ssions. That might just be pessimistic assumptions talking, though.

~Chad

--0000000000001850cc05b08e325f--