From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:23:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83zhbcg6s4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1wng2ki.fsf@linaro.org> <83o8rrenn1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073daff05a370bacc" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="17007"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ulm@gentoo.org, =?UTF-8?B?QWxleCBCZW5uw6ll?= , EMACS development team To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 17 01:24:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jPDsB-0004Lg-53 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:24:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40282 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPDsA-0000Vs-84 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:24:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51050) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPDrb-0008Va-KL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPDra-0008Vd-IO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:24:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]:37655) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jPDrZ-0008TL-1H; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:24:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id n2so72737ybg.4; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:24:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=esQ+ueh9C1ytD1NAIDNyf4nX0NXdxA0QRSxRzC0Pi9A=; b=MUz43eAuNLnBvyJ3fAk/diQZiEr2bBiUm9Rfgyu5HGZ63MrW+wOQCZPdKpdwYTFJjX SruCgWG4V7pwPjqYPdDKkLQOAsZAgZXCEZ5QMetSerUnU9jy6GGhK+Z6u4Gj3HRCD5MY xTSz5MfwRRLkyCgGDO8ZMHtBgv43bA57pdH/e/57FvCQHeOuD1LqPu3WjiHzP/Y8JOX5 pL/DI0jPgAw6T2oxWzGto/0V2VC/fwdZ0BDnDyRzw4eler9T06Zbiy0PjnzXblyWvlDH RTNiPNm7DhFHzDti7+tGpKvATV3yVJt9JA0Sy3UR1KH43chM+qiBhd5NsD2Id9wjT3Eu Cwdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=esQ+ueh9C1ytD1NAIDNyf4nX0NXdxA0QRSxRzC0Pi9A=; b=Jk8CX8R8bfugfhGHmmca5tfqrS2X/0KWJC6gjbpC5HNUhveVstySBltN817D4lU/u4 Pr74uS5LA25660fdu72mXhE8OvEKDiNV908gXKUmtAlHCgGK8sq7Fmi8WRTKiHbM6Lzi YbWCWwL/Xg56Paw5823umC375g2swrP2h9JOpghYPpA3XXuJdI2in4THDfbtvupLlQ2P dWZEsnaXvXfNKw8hmaq0NHXoM7iKL5p+yebQP+Is5DRpoyR0flMgUnKkHqjbqvdyZhPY kwRfUO8qtYoYR8tW0nds4QbRz0TWb+iKEXLfiNcoazcr4jlkPWiD4qZgsh7oUW20FEHY enxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZcN+WvXc8lLlFsKlF3RkoghoeOe/onDUQup/UHajzZvnCmKzCz zwLWtX0+bjjcqPDaDXu/vFGP3lWXRDZyczwLLcDSifxW X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJlHSfctfrbP0zpONAIGXZqDCbgQVUyXtMytZGzFHfe6KexCiKW51rLYIzfmrfFm7vh6TF/DfLnse9AFApjKiQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7bc7:: with SMTP id w190mr1161590ybc.413.1587079443371; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:24:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83o8rrenn1.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247140 Archived-At: --00000000000073daff05a370bacc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 3:22 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Alex Benn=C3=A9e > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:14:21 +0100 > > > > Surely unifying under a single cross-platform toolkit like GTK+ would > > avoid having this complexity. > > GTK+ is not cross-platform, it works only on some of the platforms we > support (and is not an easy toolkit to work with, based on our > experience). > I wrote a longer post about this topic on the emacs reddit recently, but a short summary would be: What Eli said, plus some. There is no good cross-platform GUI toolkit (free or otherwise), and the closest the software world has today is Electron (which still doesn't cover everything emacs supports). I realize that there are some partial solutions that advertise themselves as cross-platform, but if you poke at them with a moderately keen eye, they collapse quickly. As a practical matter, this is a big reason that some of emacs' biggest competitors these days are based on Electron (VS Code and Atom) and Java. ~Chad --00000000000073daff05a370bacc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 3:22 AM Eli Z= aretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> From: Alex Be= nn=C3=A9e <a= lex.bennee@linaro.org>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:14:21 +0100
>
> Surely unifying under a single cross-platform toolkit like GTK+ would<= br> > avoid having this complexity.

GTK+ is not cross-platform, it works only on some of the platforms we
support (and is not an easy toolkit to work with, based on our
experience).

I wrote a longer post abou= t this topic on the emacs reddit recently, but a short summary would be: Wh= at Eli said, plus some. There is no good cross-platform GUI toolkit (free o= r otherwise), and the closest the software world has today is Electron (whi= ch still doesn't cover everything emacs supports). I realize that there= are some partial solutions that advertise themselves as cross-platform, bu= t if you poke at them with a moderately keen eye, they collapse quickly. As= a practical matter, this is a big reason that some of emacs' biggest c= ompetitors these days are based on Electron (VS Code and Atom) and Java.

~Chad
=C2=A0
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