From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port of Emacs Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:57:47 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <121acd3282a64abf77d6@heytings.org> <87y1khd2jb.fsf@yahoo.com> <83f64da10bfab98a840a@heytings.org> <87edm9b6mx.fsf@yahoo.com> <83f64da10b4dd80c3af1@heytings.org> <87zg4w70jb.fsf@yahoo.com> <83a5wv8lwb.fsf@gnu.org> <87cz1r541l.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048f21c05fe895552" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11027"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gregory@heytings.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 20 07:59:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qBUOS-0002mY-2e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 07:59:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBUNW-0003tQ-Df; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:58:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBUNR-0003rO-5m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:58:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw1-x1133.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBUNM-000491-Md; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-x1133.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-57023c9be80so45612967b3.3; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1687240678; x=1689832678; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lMeTX6RbOaJvXwncB2dfw8dHYyv3JYRYyLom6OHVUB8=; b=je8g0Nw2gFoh07Ocm+j54lyfKmIMDe27Q5pEBw3ZxmwG2eC8SCijDvhOAfqP9YNwAk NgtEonJkD+Bbha1FgKTkUNXe8GmMgKJ0KijC4IKcqcAEjUwj6Ce6OaZmW0aVTBzucNeh A679uXrg1vIeJKci/UUNQ5b/TEjDqPwa00fkMfPDIchqMnbDxIJiVnBs+PWydTYoDL/B ag3JqD1cZ9aQjjvY6O5mt2IWkBfZrfpKtCYxUX3M+Z2C+eEkAUdG50NsStMzBG7X99DD j5ICmm3eGV3lLIMaKC0ysKCSTrADuEhs3WyI7CODQcEwqClLH92XLzx0HjnEpb4fg4P/ vH2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1687240678; x=1689832678; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=lMeTX6RbOaJvXwncB2dfw8dHYyv3JYRYyLom6OHVUB8=; b=g8JtW2TMX74zzEQN+D+7s7wMkaPafW4mXFIRNF4m3XyASZa5MXkCM3d8WF6IRuJUfL 5qZ+ZIE4XNxCnEh1uo+L1wXJHKWewF5X5kTKDkPK1Zay+yqJh6I89CywCPTXJ7Mz1/hM 0F6Ubx2NqW1pH4lMSREdPPpxQy7CWthJS+r9Vlonv115rnxDLdILGpGLXPYYrdiXNfDF hgHY8tsnv8Y4XATF3Tcv5wVLJ9eXm291vb4V73rfuIdFo40SS2Lv9U/L290cFqCl4pg3 cmIKPgkVLDB51bBtw6P1cz82+97E9fQQUt8e+c0kbfXybtArHdyz5qnqqvH8tHmPosnq anAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDw+TYpxog1JTt+ssutxQ5E+TnY4U/EX6lq8IXOKaYOrPL9k2rdc su25idvAr1+oNBPGEWalgQ9QH1aHOv/k6R1ho5M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5LG5qQXi8ftDc1DdpppjEonW/q9dLR4273Yr9LfZsdJdPYIq2FRooQIwjsYwyDJiqTlowgVAuqGG4k4049BB0= X-Received: by 2002:a81:6e89:0:b0:56d:4f2e:6f83 with SMTP id j131-20020a816e89000000b0056d4f2e6f83mr12427958ywc.4.1687240678370; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 22:57:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87cz1r541l.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-x1133.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307074 Archived-At: --00000000000048f21c05fe895552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 9:14=E2=80=AFPM Po Lu wrote: > I experienced these problems with Termux first-hand, and they motivated > me to start writing a new port.[...] > > And > hopefully, you can understand why I get extremely frustrated when the > nature of those problems is called into question... This is helpful, at least for me. In that spirit, I want to add that you seemed to be claiming, in multiple messages and multiple different wordings, that the termux+emacs solution was "broken", "unusable", and "inadequate", and while I do presume those terms accurately describe *your* experience, it definitely does not describe *everyone's* experience. I have used it myself in the past, and I know several people who have used it for years, some of which are still using it today. This is perfectly fine -- different people have different goals, needs, and criteria, of course. The problems come in, especially on distributed messaging systems, when some people use words, phrasings, or discussion style that tends to conflate one person's own (valuable!) experience with the incontrovertible state of the universe for everyone. Unfortunately for us mailing-list using humans, typical human conversation tends to encode this sort of "scope" metadata in features that are either _badly_ or _not at all_ conveyed by pure text, especially the quick/interleaved sort of text usually found on forums, chat systems, and mailing lists. (Interestingly, this is true of the large majority of, but not every, human language!) This sort of thing is where mailing lists (chat rooms, etc.) tend to run into trouble. I hope this helps, ~Chad --00000000000048f21c05fe895552 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 9:14=E2=80= =AFPM Po Lu <lua= ngruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
I experienced these problems with Termux first-hand, and the= y motivated
me to start writing a new port.[...]

And
hopefully, you can understand why I get extremely frustrated when the
nature of those problems is called into question...

This is helpful, at least for me. In that spirit, I want to add th= at you seemed=C2=A0to be claiming, in multiple messages and multiple differ= ent wordings, that the termux+emacs solution was "broken", "= unusable", and "inadequate", and while I do presume those te= rms accurately describe *your* experience, it definitely=C2=A0does not desc= ribe *everyone's* experience. I have used it myself in the past, and I = know several people who have used it for years, some of which are still usi= ng it today.=C2=A0

This is perfectly fine -- diffe= rent people have different goals, needs, and criteria, of course. The probl= ems come in, especially on distributed=C2=A0messaging systems, when some pe= ople use words, phrasings, or discussion style that tends to conflate one p= erson's own (valuable!)=C2=A0experience with the incontrovertible state= of the universe for everyone. Unfortunately for us mailing-list using huma= ns, typical human conversation tends to encode this sort of "scope&quo= t; metadata in features that are either _badly_ or _not at all_ conveyed by= pure text, especially the quick/interleaved sort of text usually found on = forums, chat systems, and mailing lists. (Interestingly, this is true of th= e large majority of, but not every, human language!)

This sort of thing is where mailing lists (chat rooms, etc.) tend to run= into trouble.=C2=A0

I hope this helps,
= ~Chad


--00000000000048f21c05fe895552--