From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as a word processor Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2020 12:57:16 -0800 Message-ID: References: <0E591E8B-FD55-4829-8421-6F2C02AFD20C@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000036bd9b05b73c0e3d" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25375"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: EMACS development team Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 24 21:59:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ksXhT-0006TI-Kc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 21:59:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43718 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksXhS-0005mI-NT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 15:59:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47616) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksXfv-0005Jd-0T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 15:57:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]:46659) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksXft-0005PO-Hf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 15:57:30 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id f6so3005758ybq.13 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 12:57:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=pGQjgEEMiXxtu2Saxv5iCFPivw5qAf9hRhpJNDQjFhQ=; b=LK9aXP8JYIZPK9pNjwx9h7hC+SbtBV2L0Na+zzuE+i5d21mY4Wqd8hEF39KPtX7oMS Tv7+GwZ4PLVsrIH07nHIQ+I3J9G/vr9F2fIovZ9y2HGSNrprx5/+dctChscUS9QfyKDv IRMiyNIOoGwJqSvHngum5hcFGhjdh6vVOXNXfq3mK1fgv80vILyd7mCQ4NxRpc3mcwwq ZQ0JtPvJHXfUXRhbDXKxjevyA60d9Tej5Khu7eABuJQQdVQVe64w4RhDqsG0ad1034An HKcRPCA74/IOMcAyBbCCFzhUJw87e/SgdbVnuRhkMYLqWEzvSKWp14+Z/SdIctfFgJFW jCqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=pGQjgEEMiXxtu2Saxv5iCFPivw5qAf9hRhpJNDQjFhQ=; b=C0RxGmdPSTIYupAgbKJfeWmX+ZOuu0t4nVVyiOk/1CVy7Cx3/ewsqsSvX/yu1fEtj8 QuURE985m4+sNMmWnEIbar9ctRLKeQyRCDBzko4E0vbxP0ilYj87YGJ5bGTRw+sRyvNM dRR7G/KFmgGrAy0AsYqI12GBfXhBLWPt3W5a7kj2yFPmp98JclFuKYl2bMfq/9FcI9wG sBFZIp6j6QUsMbho56PmCaQHLyooaq/UDTytDJpBklrwhd3au8lk+CcvC9YsfD9ncd18 vQwUtpjEKrZbZwQVc4xxU0wxrDf4c2xiHkAPwnP7ucoYw9ZltqYikcFqF3/qUdiL6Q25 bdPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5305956BqW4OoxcWPpnjQMhjnv2bB7dJ+n+546MwkhvA2cJ+YfwQ ETenv/0w7LLfGkDkqtJU3aziL19SZC9+1AryoSNzQR3o X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmxF/jCZZ8EheE8b9zp1HySKUIYP0h7IyDZ+Vw8N6iveTLy1jK/GYEsHe85aZQmIFAVCT2wy3UxqgRqQiEISs= X-Received: by 2002:a25:284:: with SMTP id 126mr43097202ybc.22.1608843447941; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 12:57:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb30.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261705 Archived-At: --00000000000036bd9b05b73c0e3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A few years ago, I moved from programming to a creative/prose-based career where I interact almost exclusively with people who use computers as mostly-replaceable appliances. In this world, interop with MS Word is a baseline assumption. In my experience, there are many fields that share this characteristic. If Emacs wants to be usable for people living in this world, it's not necessary that Emacs supports all of the various features of doc, docx, or odt files, but it is necessary that files not be corrupted (to use Richard's term) by passing through Emacs. Several years ago I cobbled together a partial solution that used a set of external (Java-based) converters, but it proved to be fragile and eventually bit-rotted. I believe that system was based on the idea that the XML-based doc variants would end up being more open (not free, but published specs) than they actually were. >From my experience, the next-most important feature for interop is support for "track changes", as its use is standard practice in many fields, and anything that doesn't support it is not workable. When last I looked, the details here were never published by MS, and would need to be reverse-engineered. I hope this helps, ~Chad --00000000000036bd9b05b73c0e3d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A few years ago, I moved from programming to a creative/pr= ose-based career where I interact almost exclusively with people who use co= mputers as mostly-replaceable appliances. In this world, interop with MS Wo= rd is a baseline assumption. In my experience, there are many fields that s= hare this characteristic.

If Emacs wants to be usable fo= r people living in this world, it's not necessary that Emacs supports a= ll of the various features of doc, docx, or odt files, but it is necessary = that files not be corrupted (to use Richard's term) by passing through = Emacs. Several years ago I cobbled together a partial solution that used a = set of external (Java-based) converters, but it proved to be fragile and ev= entually bit-rotted. I believe that system was based on the idea that the X= ML-based doc variants would end up being more open (not free, but published= specs) than they actually were.

From my experienc= e, the next-most important feature for interop is support for "track c= hanges", as its use is standard practice in many fields, and anything = that doesn't support it is not workable. When last I looked, the detail= s here were never published by MS, and would need to be reverse-engineered.=

I hope this helps,
~Chad

=
--00000000000036bd9b05b73c0e3d--