From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tick Reduction Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:26:26 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87bl2hyzca.fsf@gnus.org> <8735nszpdv.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfvswrp8.fsf@gnus.org> <834k88woaj.fsf@gnu.org> <878rxkv980.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfvpmtl8.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmqtqvj5.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl2dmnfa.fsf@gnus.org> <83mtlxquh7.fsf@gnu.org> <877dd1mlsd.fsf@gnus.org> <83k0h1qss5.fsf@gnu.org> <8735npmkm5.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7c5qpag.fsf@gnu.org> <87czmtl2uv.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsrpqog1.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnl1jnfa.fsf@gnus.org> <83czmtqnl7.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7c5jmbg.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e444ff05d168f4b1" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25488"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , EMACS development team , Stefan Kangas , Dmitry Gutov To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 23 00:27:18 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mpIiT-0006OU-RU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 00:27:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42862 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpIiR-0000Xn-MB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:27:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpIhw-0008Ih-9T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::136] (port=45794 helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpIht-0002Gm-Uu; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:26:44 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id m27so85780303lfj.12; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:26:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nlJkpaTd/Ou6Pqb+7X6nR/RaH3G63pPhZecO/ooXvZU=; b=fxgBwlfNVumUCCbg7mQSTeMIjy0S3Yt/Wu9lbGsctN3TpiDIZx6QMw03LZ8OB2rITL yOn9/jLeemhTmyp7zRHZpN07yBbLvww9q7PQ6uE7islg/mcpYR2Ghv4Bwi0HnaqwfAi0 RBXgA2r8VjLbugQ1Vzk0QuFzOx/nPne0m78lDjD1jBTTu3N86PfbGOVu8zM7U93RIAr4 M8VGfF7/2FGQqnZEd8+ZSY7KWv7cAdDU/ZQGbxwVTaeA7A9arHRMbRBCqhqsOM9rcG65 69t+wiHT+BdOjg/ep2G1k8ZZINu9tHwmHbvLF7x5/ahhoqxnr9XRvogZM8cL2kSYHMil z5kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nlJkpaTd/Ou6Pqb+7X6nR/RaH3G63pPhZecO/ooXvZU=; b=fw/GB1FbRxaeX+g5gZS0LD+hMs5WT54FZauJy4pmCeXkJavwahMlYFoGL0yKHJqcQF 7++fCM0CmoddBDBR+VkXQIGqRwEbvO9M6PJDBjvCDbXX5au22qR+UI88L30IDmvsosqP V3dxzibh9g3umRLKaqc+KdyMLhQQF2XG5UlK6VkSBZr1ooYHLfNuiQCaRaPITTwLerum UBPoIdurzkSnMlkQfZ1MGpFGYhAtj+iXHjImfR31X0cfKjmbDKUH36NT7NcM/UBljm2Y F+kRlec0IWbnqTdyJzwzCkzSeG47E/+VdqMy3vVDS7kwwu7BZQEv1Fd21zdocMbGeU0E C/lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Byl3MT5nWbPJUsS/9vHxRPvhmiklSO4RFQgWCLDHws6oLMtdr jsBykq/Dr9Bmohz3aN1cEQ6cfET4BnUA447tpfs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzrC4/1NpqetfHyKQaKseY9ztu6qMXzl2nAV7BpIyGQJnF7LjTevQUpJDgOrUUwhjiSudZp3I1K3H+KjX49odc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2082:: with SMTP id t2mr163561lfr.186.1637623598956; Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:26:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87h7c5jmbg.fsf@gnus.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::136 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::136; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x136.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:279929 Archived-At: --000000000000e444ff05d168f4b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 12:18 PM Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > They are numbers, so they can change the width because different > > digits have different width. > > No, they don't (in the vast majority of proportional fonts). > You're both right. More specifically, the details are more complicated than it might appear. When typesetting numbers, there's a feature called "tabular figures" that uses alternative glyphs to make everything line up in columns. This applies to proportion fonts even if the "normal" numerals aren't the same width (or the same size), and can be extended to include number-related glyphs that are likely to appear in tabular layouts, such as making things like "12345", "(234)", "-2345", "$2345", "1234%", etc. always be the same width. A similar feature makes tabular figures the same size in bold, italic, and roman scripts. Wikipedia has some details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface#Typesetting_numbers Another potentially useful reference: https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-3/numbers/proportional-vs-tabular-figures I can certainly imagine situations where emacs might want each of these options. I think that this conversation is suggesting that the mode-line mostly wants tabular figures, and I can imagine something similar in, as an example, dired buffers. Hope that helps, ~Chad --000000000000e444ff05d168f4b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 12:18 PM Lars= Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> = wrote:
Eli Zaret= skii <eliz@gnu.org= > writes:

> They are numbers, so they can change the width because different
> digits have different width.

No, they don't (in the vast majority of proportional fonts).

You're both right.

M= ore specifically, the details are more complicated than it might appear. Wh= en typesetting numbers, there's a feature called "tabular figures&= quot; that uses alternative glyphs to make everything line up in columns. T= his applies to proportion fonts even if the "normal" numerals are= n't the same width (or the same size), and can be extended to include n= umber-related glyphs that are likely to appear in tabular layouts, such as = making things like "12345", "(234)", "-2345",= "$2345", "1234%", etc. always be the same width. A sim= ilar feature makes tabular figures the same size in bold, italic, and roman= scripts.

Wikipedia has some details here:=C2=A0https:= //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface#Typesetting_numbers

I can certainly imagine situat= ions where emacs might want each of these options. I think that this conver= sation is suggesting that the mode-line mostly wants tabular figures, and I= can imagine something similar in, as an example, dired buffers.
=
Hope that helps,
~Chad
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