From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Josh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default behaviour of RET. Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:15:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8361sqli02.fsf@gnu.org> <1730ebf3-db44-498c-b2a9-4d288d83a946@default> <87k3h6xuen.fsf@yandex.ru> <1878e4fa-50f2-4655-a4ff-30d1db708ee8@default> <5D2595BD-AC11-4FB6-B363-31EBE28A0AE0@mit.edu> <20131022005911.63239c56@forcix.kollektiv-hamburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382552163 10845 80.91.229.3 (23 Oct 2013 18:16:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: chad , "emacs-devel@gnu.org devel" , Jorgen Schaefer To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 23 20:16:08 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ2yT-0004Y6-Rv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:16:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50910 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ2yT-0001zu-CO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:16:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59853) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ2yM-0001zm-7o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ2yG-0000g7-4f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:15:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-f48.google.com ([74.125.82.48]:59080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ2yF-0000g1-QL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:15:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id b13so1210790wgh.3 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:15:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=PpqPkOuvH2xjDlyiyt0wZCFOPR8dq/o49kyCV1ZhfsI=; b=OhxdRH2hmx3IEQGoXaqaDYRYgcfuWGOJ/4h4BD94gTbMliyii1Vj1THmq/JBIyo+QK czngcdnOgZROthDeiwzpITRDWBOkyrabmZCejG3KwerARneWAZXRxOJqK0jjkOS29B9+ rWQ5KpTkUAzxJZnfdyvwdIeiEaHUkrNTtAK7kzV/dsX+XrV/05tMlnknA82DkEap5g/N P5JbvOsg9IfebNr5gnJqv2HUJDT6jkcEvhmPT487YqMA0MEZky0fomP+JL08IkgF9tsx LeE2k2FaQjCn11UuSoCBAvVZti/0DxPxYIk8TSd8Aioaifl81464GjHrywqNvOW3iPv/ WhJg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl5YYGBxwoS2vGu+wjVUHDpQx4HoH9AjGnChaEEVb6OSrQ6rBY8EhA8lRjKNcA7DgRzmU9Y X-Received: by 10.180.188.197 with SMTP id gc5mr3244298wic.42.1382552151091; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.22.225 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:15:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: PFKqsskkgKonbJLErXp06WqQo2Y X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 74.125.82.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164486 Archived-At: On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> If the default binding of RET changes, please do make sure that there >>>> is a simple and easily accessible way of toggling this, to enable >>>> correct pasting of multi-line text in tty versions of Emacs. >>> Indeed, very good point. >>> So we have the following issues if we want to enable electric-indent-mode: >>> - C-j's default binding becomes useless. >>> - need for a new tty-paste command. >> I'm not sure that follows. > > I can't see the relation between what you say and what you quoted. Sorry if I was unclear; I'll try again. Several[0][1][2][3] people here have expressed their preference for the continued availability of distinct newline and newline-and-indent commands. This distinction is lost under the current electric-mode implementation, which effectively merges the two. This is presumably why you believe that C-j's default binding of newline-and-indent would become useless, but it seems to me that a keymap-based electric-mode implementation could remap those commands such that hitting return (->newline-and-indent) would trigger reindentation while keeping non-indenting newline functionality available on C-j (->newline). Secondly, this discussion was launched by a complaint[4] about electric-mode's effect on newline's behavior when called programmatically. As Alan mentioned[5], there are hundreds of existing calls to newline and such a change to its behavior would have ripple effects on and perhaps breakage of an unknown number of those callers. In contrast to the present electric-mode implementation, a keymap-based approach would leave newline's behavior in those contexts unchanged. [0] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00552.html [1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00685.html [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00639.html [3] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00690.html [4] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00407.html [5] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00413.html