From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 23.4 Updated Windows Binaries published Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 06:42:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4F2EAF8E.3010106@alice.it> <83d39tcjdx.fsf@gnu.org> <87haz4zksa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fweozgbu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328507011 10777 80.91.229.3 (6 Feb 2012 05:43:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 05:43:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Angelo Graziosi To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , "Richard M. Stallman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 06:43:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuHMO-0002Sr-4v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:43:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43531 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuHMN-0002c6-Cf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:43:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:59118) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuHMJ-0002bp-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:43:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuHMI-0002oT-EY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:43:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com ([209.85.215.41]:57944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuHMB-0002nM-LW; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:43:15 -0500 Original-Received: by lamf4 with SMTP id f4so3306288lam.0 for ; Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:43:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7kpl51zZQKp7tdFCO8hiq0NfmcnvxywZUHzk8XzLbHY=; b=GWYH76sFcEFwRft38Zqki+7GjmPZLRJO4m/FtVwZnz03CZmr5MuQ9uODn7CCKUrEYi 1YiwRY3u2ATHmEU532f3JhMmpiOiXMWVL+XnjnDJiMarYCsjb6keX8yitye0uMmSwrXD QAkRUsALv36krevEii0f5xA6U5U0+RRBbi3ds= Original-Received: by 10.112.102.161 with SMTP id fp1mr4241378lbb.71.1328506994166; Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:43:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.12.6 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Feb 2012 21:42:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87fweozgbu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.215.41 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148240 Archived-At: On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 06:22, Stephen J. Turnbull wrot= e: > Lennart Borgman writes: > =C2=A0> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 04:46, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > =C2=A0> > If you mean that Emacs doesn't need to distribute those sources > =C2=A0> > *with Emacs*, that is true. =C2=A0If you mean that Emacs docs c= an > =C2=A0> > point to the upstream sources, you misunderstand. > =C2=A0> > =C2=A0> Stephen, can you please explain exactly what makes it not > =C2=A0> permissible to point to the upstream sources? > > Eli answered this briefly already, but here's some additional detail > and rationale. Thanks, I am looking for the details. > =C2=A0> You say below that it does not satisfy the GPL. Is that what you > =C2=A0> mean? > > Almost. =C2=A0First, to the extent that the distributed code is under the > GPL but not owned by the FSF, that's exactly right. > > Second, even if the additional library code is owned by the FSF, I > consider that the FSF is morally (and perhaps legally by its charter > and the assignment contracts it has entered) bound to provide that > code on terms that allow third parties to easily redistribute Emacs > exactly as they receive it, not to mention with their own > modifications if they desire. =C2=A0Having to chase down sources on > multiple hosts (some of which may no longer exist at the time you > receive the code) is not my idea of fulfilling that obligation. > > I'm willing to go out on a limb and speak for Richard here: he would > also find that unacceptable. > > =C2=A0> What does it break? > > It breaks Section 6d of the GNU General Public License, v3 (and the > similar section in GPLv2, which is stricter): > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A06. Conveying Non-Source Forms. > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You may convey a covered work in object code form und= er the terms > =C2=A0 =C2=A0of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the > =C2=A0 =C2=A0machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of thi= s License, > =C2=A0 =C2=A0in one of these ways: > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0d) Convey the object code by offering access f= rom a designated > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equi= valent access to the > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Corresponding Source in the same way through t= he same place at no > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0further charge. I can't see that this in a legal way prevents from pointing to sources that is not owned by the distributor. And when it comes to making the code easily accessible would not something like DOI be useful? (http://www.doi.org/) (Maybe Richard wants to clarify this. I am adding him.) > Other parts of section 6 would also be broken in similar ways in case > of "embedded Emacs" or "Emacs-on-a-disk" distribution. > > Note that even if Emacs can legally get around this requirement > because the FSF owns all related code, anybody downstream from Emacs > cannot. =C2=A0They must comply with the GPL in full, which (strictly > speaking) means providing the exact copy of the Corresponding Sources > that produced the binary they're distributing.