From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 23.4 Updated Windows Binaries published Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:52 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4F2EAF8E.3010106@alice.it> <83d39tcjdx.fsf@gnu.org> <87haz4zksa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fweozgbu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d39szb88.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8762fkyo2b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328543687 23920 80.91.229.3 (6 Feb 2012 15:54:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Richard M. Stallman" , Angelo Graziosi To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 16:54:41 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQtr-0003CS-AL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:54:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60557 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQtq-0006qh-PH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:54:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39013) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQtj-0006qQ-Kf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:54:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQtd-0004d5-Oo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:54:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com ([209.85.215.41]:44276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQtR-0004Xv-TT; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:54:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com with SMTP id f4so3815764lam.0 for ; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:54:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UuwPte0W78jUxTltlArxE05hIngRFrRvOHJaLJyJ1dU=; b=BJ52PkExA9PIL9yt/mWCcPHnr38aI4zwXWMd1bVXcx52uhOg0xbSmpIgulBv3HiUVA joTt/9vM4vVtms0M5U+XrAhsAEOvuq9XjW3l7zYprepExeZQkfHbceDoEeZK429oKQsN R4XHHsYCyiUtgPWGLJ72ZkMmgoc9UjJ/Aq4VE= Original-Received: by 10.152.112.104 with SMTP id ip8mr9889508lab.15.1328543652126; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:54:12 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.12.6 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Feb 2012 07:53:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8762fkyo2b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.215.41 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148267 Archived-At: On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 16:33, Stephen J. Turnbull wrot= e: > Lennart Borgman writes: > > =C2=A0> Just what I said above. But the answer from Richard that Paul jus= t > =C2=A0> pointed to (http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D10656#= 23) is > =C2=A0> very clear. > > Clear as mud. =C2=A0What you are missing is that Richard responded to a > fragment of Paul's post which was arguably misleading. =C2=A0Paul wrote > "ship executables", but Richard's reply does *not* apply to "shipping" > via the Internet. =C2=A0See below. > > =C2=A0> In fact I think it confirm that sources can be elsewhere. > > That's wishful thinking, at best. I am perhaps an optimist ;-) > No, in this case, where we are talking about distributing via an > Internet server, the sources have to be in the same place as the > object. =C2=A0The GPL, section 6(d), is crystal clear on that point. Are we reading the same version of GPL 6(d)? Maybe I do not understand the English well then. 6(d) says: d) Convey the object code by offering access from a designated place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no further charge. You need not require recipients to copy the Corresponding Source along with the object code. If the place to copy the object code is a network server, the Corresponding Source may be on= a different server (operated by you or a third party) that supports equivalent copying facilities, provided you maintain clear directions next to the object code saying where to find the Corresponding Source. Regardless of what server hosts= the Corresponding Source, you remain obligated to ensure that it is available for as long as needed to satisfy these requirements. It says "through the same place", not "at the same place". And it also tells what to do if the source is not on the same server as the object code. I really do not understand. I would be glad if you explained further. > =C2=A0There > are three exceptions: 6(b), 6(c), and 6(e). =C2=A0None applies to the > situation we are discussing. =C2=A06(b) requires that you *provide physic= al > media* (eg, a CD-ROM) plus a *written guarantee* that the sources > exist in a particular place; Emacs is clearly not going to restrict > itself to that. =C2=A0Section 6(c) does not apply to mass distribution; i= t > specifically says "only occasionally" (eg, making a copy of Emacs as a > birthday present for your sister). =C2=A0Further, to invoke 6(c) you must > have received your copy under 6(b), which certainly is not the case > for Emacs and GnuTLS. =C2=A06(e) requires use of a peer-to-peer protocol, > which is obviously unsuitable as the primary source of a mass > distribution of Emacs. > > =C2=A0> There could be a DOI-like pointer for exactly those sources used. > > C'mon, Lennart, I wasn't born yesterday. =C2=A0Of course I figured that o= ut > already. =C2=A0That's so obvious even a U.S. Patent Office examiner would > refuse to pass it. ;-) Yes, I know you are aware of that. > You are *still* missing the point. =C2=A0Did you miss Eli's recent post > asking somebody to remove version numbers of 3rd party libraries used > by the Windows binary distribution? =C2=A0Updating that DOI is a PITA and > mistake-prone, and it's a nasty mistake to make because *any small > mistake at all* because it puts you in technical violation of your > license (but only if you distribute binaries only; if you distribute > the source too, typos in the README are merely typos). Updating the DOI-like URI would indeed be problematic since it could still be used for old distributed object. I guess you have to create new numbers for every ojbect distribution. > =C2=A0> An easier way is perhaps to clone the sources to a new place in t= he > =C2=A0> repository (or another repository). > > Technically easier, yes; GPL-compliant, arguably not. =C2=A0Clause 6(d) > requires "equivalent copying services"; if the object is in a tarball, > one could argue that requiring tarball users to install Bazaar is not > equivalent. Ok, I never understood it that way, but you may be right. However even Launchpad seems to get an easy way to download a zip file instead of using Bazaar soon. (There is a long standing request for that and the comments suggests that it is implemented now but I do not know if it is in production yet.)