From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:43:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> <87ioxs4zc9.fsf@informatimago.com> <87k3i8vj93.fsf@yandex.ru> <83bo3kk6hh.fsf@gnu.org> <87eh8gzee5.fsf@yandex.ru> <871u4go1bp.fsf@gmail.com> <837ge8jalb.fsf@gnu.org> <83txhbiyts.fsf@gnu.org> <83siwviwao.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb03946675d0504e70d3760 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1379944032 23415 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2013 13:47:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:47:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jay Belanger , Emacs-Devel devel , Pascal Bourguignon , Brief Busters To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 23 15:47:15 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VO6Tp-0002qk-AY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 15:47:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40801 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VO6To-0000rp-W0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:47:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60983) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VO6R7-0005ZC-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:44:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VO6R6-0000Zw-8r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:44:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::235]:47624) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VO6R0-0000YB-0V; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:44:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id x12so3147695wgg.8 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:44:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vnEX0KzkqCQazKgXToEeXo5TvSiJsMqbO1IIEmubWZ8=; b=XOQDrnbkyaYm3kGqGyUi4Ns9i4HiK6hRy88cCBdixg22v+BeSjZ/Lp7TRO4ZOjJJD2 8922wXD+OyRC36/DpqqBGZSKWlAlzO33nH2ucIZDcT/KLIYFD4/XFAPPpUcgu6TXMJvS FlW5Je7R/QtXIjvPwnI4hO4/LSY2dgpIQriuaZZe4EzReut+zPkgeKVUPznLMo7fmUzM gREElP1E4+3ibTUHoGuzLpiFp+qfdJow98F/YpCg0jv4t3jOOYXbX8arog3Tt85ysze+ ZlrJREIYVReu4MRxmkGS6ecnQSaMxrToAmFhqA+9maixN52NQE2bOpMWBVrZ85fpRc5s 7HXg== X-Received: by 10.194.193.4 with SMTP id hk4mr17449963wjc.29.1379943856951; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.240.41 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:43:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83siwviwao.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163579 Archived-At: --047d7bb03946675d0504e70d3760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Lennart Borgman > > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:40:19 +0200 > > Cc: Jay Belanger , Brief Busters < > dgutov@yandex.ru>, > > Pascal Bourguignon , Emacs-Devel devel < > emacs-devel@gnu.org> > > > > And how about Ctl-arrow key? Does that move a "word"? If combined with > > Shift does it select? > > Yes and yes. > Oh, that is really good news! :-) But you did not mention anything about PgUp/PgDn. Though those are of course trivial to fix too. Some important things are of course still missing for new users: C-c and C-x (only text is selected), C-v and C-z (always). Making cua-mode default would make those things much more stable. And better for new users. And then there is the trouble with Emac's META vs Window's Alt. (I do not know what Alt is called in others OS:es.) I made a mistake when I once in my patched Emacs chosen the Windows key for Emac's META. It would have been much better if I had chosen the Caps Lock (Shift Lock) key. However at that time I did not know/realize MS would put more restrictions on the use of the Windows key. But using Alt as Emac's META is not good for new users. I would suggest Caps Lock instead. (And I think that is possible with a slight twitch of my keyboard patch. But I do not have time to look into it now.) --047d7bb03946675d0504e70d3760 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borg= man@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:40:19 +0200
> Cc: Jay Belanger <jay.p.belange= r@gmail.com>, Brief Busters <dgutov@yandex.ru>,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pascal Bourguignon <pjb@informatim= ago.com>, Emacs-Devel devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org><= br> >
> And how about Ctl-arrow key? Does that move a = "word"? If combined with
> Shift does it select?

Yes and yes.

Oh, that is really = good news! :-)
But you did not mention anything about PgUp/PgDn. Though = those are of course trivial to fix too.

Some important things are of= course still missing for new users: C-c and C-x (only text is selected), C= -v and C-z (always). Making cua-mode default would make those things much m= ore stable. And better for new users.

And then there is the trouble with Emac's META vs Window's Alt.= (I do not know what Alt is called in others OS:es.) I made a mistake when = I once in my patched Emacs chosen the Windows key for Emac's META. It w= ould have been much better if I had chosen the Caps Lock (Shift Lock) key. = However at that time I did not know/realize MS would put more restrictions = on the use of the Windows key. But using Alt as Emac's META is not good= for new users. I would suggest Caps Lock instead. (And I think that is pos= sible with a slight twitch of my keyboard patch. But I do not have time to = look into it now.)
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