From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:43:04 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <52CB12DE.7040905@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04388e4599e2c304ef55d491 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389051830 23056 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2014 23:43:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 23:43:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eric Raymond , Toby Cubitt , "Richard M. Stallman" , Emacs-Devel devel To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 00:43:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jpr-0005lQ-Hj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:43:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38108 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jpr-0007me-7X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:43:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45563) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jpm-0007mO-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:43:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jpl-0004Rf-Ng for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:43:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]:51358) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jpi-0004R5-E8; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:43:46 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id cc10so49802wib.4 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:43:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=VEOsxKTXzWgyIm/JN/aesKHaOwSOJLlVvcmxE8qPLE0=; b=h27W5GIZsM2nOrsFalcXhsG8WwM0xGx+3LYpJgGhbMj8FxOwGmBZLf3WP3W8Zr8tf9 iJAJOoE5B+5NMq0MFswtrfvrSF7HOtlYWH4wHCMCBikcg0TdFlUFsWmXJw5Wa08PRHv0 uqM6bZsZb8lBnTdT7egLzwXOvGg/VZVa5paAI1eCLtzYPb/+zBWnMGG2qYL8fmaRhrAG kWmT3lKB+px/Ij5mqkonegMTW2B3s9DiJWxb86FikmkUGU6amAm7QV/18PPhSYUT6V7b 1ur1GNvHrH9OaggSF1O/aMBceTEkyZguy0gC3Kz3PQAw8n8VeUxmJZPIMd/qDy/AQnXj BShA== X-Received: by 10.180.77.72 with SMTP id q8mr14665530wiw.12.1389051824954; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:43:44 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.216.227 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 15:43:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52CB12DE.7040905@dancol.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167544 Archived-At: --f46d04388e4599e2c304ef55d491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Colascione wrote: > On 01/06/2014 12:27 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > >> Conceivably we could rename "window" to "pane" and "frame" to "window". >> I think the two renamings would have to be done in two different releases, >> perhaps a year or two apart. >> > > I don't think we could pull off this renaming. At least on the lisp level, > we would have to maintain compatibility aliases effectively forever, > doubling the number of lisp symbols dealing with these concepts. One does > not simply rename a function that's been in constant use for 20 years. > Sure, you might argue, we could change the labels we assign these concepts > in the UI and leave lisp alone, but the lisp symbols are too closely tied > to the UI (with respect to keybindings and M-x) to change the two > independently. > > The best thing we can do is explain in the tutorial and manual the > correspondence between Emacs and common terms. > We are talking about the user level. Interactive function names can be duplicated. --f46d04388e4599e2c304ef55d491 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> wrote:
On 01/06/2014 12:27 PM, Ri= chard Stallman wrote:
Conceivably we could rename "window" to "pane" and &quo= t;frame" to "window".
I think the two renamings would have to be done in two different releases,<= br> perhaps a year or two apart.

I don't think we could pull off this renaming. At least on the lisp lev= el, we would have to maintain compatibility aliases effectively forever, do= ubling the number of lisp symbols dealing with these concepts. One does not= simply rename a function that's been in constant use for 20 years. Sur= e, you might argue, we could change the labels we assign these concepts in = the UI and leave lisp alone, but the lisp symbols are too closely tied to t= he UI (with respect to keybindings and M-x) to change the two independently= .

The best thing we can do is explain in the tutorial and manual the correspo= ndence between Emacs and common terms.

We are talking about the user level. Interactive fun= ction names can be duplicated.=C2=A0
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