From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unboxed package manager Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:51:52 -0400 Message-ID: References: <57668895-8EEA-44F7-BD46-9CDFAA11FD2C@gmail.com> <08b5f766ddd9da754a86@heytings.org> <08b5f766ddf4b33993cd@heytings.org> <08b5f766dd896dfbed4c@heytings.org> <83jzza6xwk.fsf@gnu.org> <08b5f766dd0f765bb1a9@heytings.org> <83edpi6vl4.fsf@gnu.org> <08b5f766dd05e9469540@heytings.org> <838rfq6mi8.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg846e53.fsf@gnu.org> <83lejo55j4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000080cada05f7c3dff1" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36158"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , Yuan Fu , emacs-devel To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 26 03:53:15 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pgFZL-0009Ea-0k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2023 03:53:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pgFYX-0007Ir-40; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:52:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pgFYV-0007Ii-PC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:52:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x532.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::532]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pgFYT-0005S0-Sc; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:52:23 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x532.google.com with SMTP id d8so3250783pgm.3; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 18:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1679795524; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XeGvRVvkSEtnhiZ1ZTaSTVvKxZ4APta0GFg4B03+wcU=; b=KlC7NGy1b1I0GyMdQe7FlYk5dMfS/Ea5mQsIC4Mb7NoZFbGMZk2Gtg5VnC44ApGGIV Xu0C+UeNVsCU2Vjl8Un0idPOrJaRiJS+IoTwiGvun/UszQ5km703UEB2nuBD1v3JcGDq SzUSmH1LlbuM2xFtw8lqjusUyNP8BfCEvs+lL7K/tDS+iR6I2br1MxEXzDXlvRHiBnD9 hytInIhozuk0zSNviCl5I8vNdV3jbMKxjTTGIznOaqsY2VU1ooJAc+YOCKiIJBUIu4zT 1D8XwS3WCf4BxyQRTDNlySgUoSef+MTx9T9HN9NhewnjwAL5/u9/uva1HdqjOL3RBAIh rPMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679795524; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XeGvRVvkSEtnhiZ1ZTaSTVvKxZ4APta0GFg4B03+wcU=; b=b5+1pnq61Q6Sri5ddEyJfYy1+AOQ85JbL32KY6S2jyhj6ORO+RDF90HdBMLeoZYp9o vVGeisrAaNoP/o5C1iKJpK/G+JTrKCNn0bqagCE4lQxnoljZk7cXIjWOwObh96GlH9Xt 5KlOuNNejrTkbxwpDLwsq+u38+OcYj0sj4g0T69uVtlfp0w60KM33PPAdFhB3nZXtLYv yZNgVCQdIldKzLmp1y+yGJX7OtsSqT63A5rkqsEixdmDESlGdKjdeURT60xyc0reoTaF 8Q/1+1aT2B1hdORWvYZOxstDFZVD3+Cvt0zaTS8ypSuYTJ07A7hrUkX8RBsYG7gI5vRK 3f8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWytzbypQdxbs9SLVcVc1Jr7TGwCxSbCz1FhgTXx4jV3agBHscO 5gLIHbZy73ZVIkY1okmJd/IeBDa4IQC01GBhA7g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8zOEu5iqv5meUOItDXjKhm+Q+4C92MOo5k35VWM83okMeaDpweUNMJa0aORdXzH3uZ1dOa+MLk9nqJ1IYHjdc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:26e9:b0:5a8:aaa1:6c05 with SMTP id p41-20020a056a0026e900b005a8aaa16c05mr5896612pfw.2.1679795523994; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 18:52:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::532; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x532.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:304772 Archived-At: --00000000000080cada05f7c3dff1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 1:55 PM chad wrote: > I fear that this discussion might have veered too far into > theoretical territory for some of the conversants, and probably not the > _same_ theoretical territory for everyone. With that in mind, I *think* > that what Lynn Winebarger is asking for might be best answered by: > > Try digging into the package-quickstart part of package, especially >> p-q-refresh and p-q-maybe-refresh. > > I'm already well into writing the first draft of the code. I'm writing it so packages will get saved down as they are now, but will not be in the "selected-packages" list used to construct the quickstart file. Preferably I will be able to circumvent the compilation step (of the "boxed" libraries) as well. I've had to write a little function for cleanly replacing text corresponding to a sexpr according to a pcase matcher. I'd prefer to use a pre-existing implementation, but I'm not aware of one. It might be handy in emacs-lisp-mode. The tree-sitter variant of emacs-lisp-mode might already provide a similar facility for replacing text based on a syntactic pattern. > On the other hand, I think that the best answer to "should emacs-devel > actually care about loading scads of packages" might be: > > There seem to be a lot of (potential) emacs users, especially in the >> "interested but not already heavily enfranchised subset", that make use of >> emacs "distributions", and that model would probably benefit from >> improvements to "loading scads of packages". > > That's a fair and concise summary. When I preload the world, M-x customize is very usable for configuration purposes. I have a hard time seeing many casual new users accustomed to GUI configuration spending time writing extensive elisp init files just to try packages to get UI features they're accustomed to from other editors. > > This doesn't answer the "should" question, but I think it provides a > closer-to-real-practice basis for consideration. > > Hope that helps, > ~Chad > I think so - thanks! Lynn --00000000000080cada05f7c3dff1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 1:55 PM chad <yandros@gmail.com> wrote:
I fear that this discussion might have veere= d too far into theoretical=C2=A0territory for some of the conversants, and = probably not the _same_ theoretical territory=C2=A0for everyone. With that = in mind, I *think* that what Lynn Winebarger is asking for might be best an= swered by:=C2=A0

Try digging into the package-quickstart part of package, especially p= -q-refresh and p-q-maybe-refresh.

I'm already well into w= riting the first draft of the code.=C2=A0 I'm writing it so packages wi= ll get saved down as they are now, but will not be in the "selected-pa= ckages" list used to construct the quickstart file.=C2=A0 Preferably I= will be able to circumvent the compilation step (of the "boxed" = libraries) as well.

I= 9;ve had to write a little function for cleanly replacing text correspondin= g to a sexpr according to a pcase matcher.=C2=A0 I'd prefer to use a pr= e-existing implementation, but I'm not aware of one.=C2=A0 It might be = handy in emacs-lisp-mode.=C2=A0 The tree-sitter variant of emacs-lisp-mode = might already provide a similar facility for replacing text based on a synt= actic pattern.


=
On the other hand, I think that the best answer to "should = emacs-devel actually care about loading scads of packages" might be:

There = seem to be a lot of (potential) emacs users, especially in the "intere= sted but not already heavily enfranchised subset", that make use of em= acs "distributions", and that model would probably benefit from i= mprovements to "loading scads of packages".=C2=A0

T= hat's a fair and concise summary.=C2=A0 =C2=A0When I preload the world,= M-x customize is very usable for configuration purposes.=C2=A0 I have a ha= rd time seeing many casual new users accustomed to GUI configuration spendi= ng time writing extensive elisp init files just to try packages to get UI f= eatures they're accustomed to from other editors.

This doesn't answer the "should" questi= on, but I think it provides a closer-to-real-practice basis for considerati= on.

Hope that helps,
~Chad

I thin= k so - thanks!

Lynn

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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