From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:28:09 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilmlluxq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h725olz1.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgfxn6lt.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu65k9ec.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r119lnsd.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtbxlnf1.fsf@gnus.org> <87czctk890.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a67xlm9v.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006fe43305e6c1fb66" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6540"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , emacs-devel To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 21 17:29:21 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oPmt7-0001ZK-9Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 17:29:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPmt5-0001jU-Lq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:29:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38016) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPmsG-0000zT-8K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:28:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]:51955) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPmsE-0001me-QQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:28:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id e19so7532611pju.1 for ; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 08:28:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=3Zn3gZo78RNXGAN7whUMAYkaHMKs8i43+sWGn8Ig+gk=; b=kapw/SCtVO/vNH1FMTLo+lhJ1y74gts4ugpU8UOg60OSKdjRd4fU7DFxhqbto1PmtR z1RZtTv5buQH/Aq1IehveoWMDpTub6KCfWStlJHzM/1AR0Q7Qr2uJm5kAI6whf/AhZCl IXP/10RGXTLsKxNoaZS+g+B0QSdoFlfc4r/mBc5ny4tD9tHa7t27WKABg//aDHY8voZ1 31PN1uxwxxq+O0M6DxAVXjUFQhCnl9Iwvfp5KoxsivL9njeejWxPISSsPykzcxiDuAYP GC2nBL1u4pVCqSaXxw8r4dJoOax3i5xGXrIxewtKo/rusNFmNxnQkn1v1sed66eIIFQ+ Kz8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=3Zn3gZo78RNXGAN7whUMAYkaHMKs8i43+sWGn8Ig+gk=; b=OKoJrOiGJbZf4QAdRY23o1eWGEvOWloXGrUJt7NRQjLYzsssNyo5B8T674qeqidm1W nlNIZtsa4DSTcNzLU2oKu5YNwVjrOH2kmBU2rU+fzBGki1QBGnNtU1GNuXyaup0OaO1o MEGxcbWyloG0fOt6knRiyUAnCfpbCnC7xiRNJfW3sdPdoqm6IknEp9FdrfQh5ijS27Fr ogVxDDoK/NmBhEnRdm0v5blpk8TYrKDEyMeJ9HZuFWCaIUCgXXT3vewfOaywnov28CY8 0cRlY71hlcQD811hjUJgn/G1IcpY14qt4SXfYjbRR30Kj4AjPBUnNA3W3nrFRJkxZ4lU Hbkw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2+9DXQ4HPEe5KLbTjcjOpE95uzhv/M/vGSy6i70XDr0SZlKiol RpMd4Fscz7cP7v1KK+EcWJOsPFBmko4lMNnJ3Rk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4mrU+I6o8wXBcO45ro1JqxxrQ8byzZAbLs6akG3QxVFbhrop19XX27a2gU3NsI2CXav/j4tv4c2/TGJeMSRsQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:9318:b0:1fa:f4f9:a3a2 with SMTP id p24-20020a17090a931800b001faf4f9a3a2mr11031378pjo.5.1661095705042; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 08:28:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87a67xlm9v.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1033.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293740 Archived-At: --0000000000006fe43305e6c1fb66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 10:12 AM Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > But, yes, most people who build Emacs themselves end up using the Gtk > toolkit for two reasons: It's the default, and the no-toolkit one is > ugly and unusable (both in actuality and as a UX preference for most > normal people). > As I only recently took up building emacs for myself again, I can tell you when I saw the choices for toolkit configuration, my reaction was (a) how is no toolkit a viable option, and (b) who is using a window manager based on the Motif or Lucid toolkits these days? If there was a Qt option, I'd probably have taken it. When I've used a remote window manager on a local X server (versus a VNC based remote display), GNOME just generated so much more X protocol traffic than KDE/Qt that I'm wary of using it. I don't know how much of that traffic is from GTK, hence my bias toward Qt if it were already an option. Lynn --0000000000006fe43305e6c1fb66 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 10:12 AM Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
But, yes, most people who build Emacs themselves end up using the Gtk
toolkit for two reasons: It's the default, and the no-toolkit one is ugly and unusable (both in actuality and as a UX preference for most
normal people).

As I only recently took up building emacs for myself again, = I can tell you when I saw the choices for toolkit configuration, my reactio= n was (a) how is no toolkit a viable option, and (b) who is using a window = manager based on the Motif or Lucid toolkits these days?=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">If there was a Qt option, I'd probably have taken it.= =C2=A0 When I've used a remote window manager on a local X server (vers= us a VNC based remote display), GNOME just generated so much more X protoco= l traffic than KDE/Qt that I'm wary of using it.=C2=A0 I don't know= how much of that traffic is from GTK, hence my bias toward Qt if it were a= lready an option.

Lynn

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