From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Grammar checking Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2023 11:20:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87sfdnyuxc.fsf@posteo.de> <83sfdl2z26.fsf@gnu.org> <58158ae49808189da7b2@heytings.org> <83mt3t2xz1.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzyxxqir.fsf@gmail.com> <58158ae4986fa602fe47@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24558"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 08 16:29:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pl9ZP-0006D5-1x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 16:29:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pl9Ye-0005Ad-3R; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 10:28:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pl9Yc-00059v-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 10:28:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pl9Ya-0005gs-Np; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 10:28:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1a51ba7fdfcso3000565ad.3; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680964122; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=RDQ3ZhxDA7o55ZNDtYoGd9Ome9xLmrhEZpMJL/P8dns=; b=J77V5DroLnc9T9ahRnA/t7lE41ffQj2kQOcdsS1OKYXisLws80jl+GFCMR9cq/VsWa SyUKw/Vbo6Et6kzcoS/Y/zmlCaGPJ8j4Sh0jfwClvKpvzUAev3UU/7WYBe6WsyldKU46 WHHD7LIQpQi7neEmNYkprihhbWW+h6315rvstqvhzqynnRN0WQbjiuaBdgiH2djFT5pV 2LfQiEN1lzQQXIqWVaD5RTVAxFMzO4fiYdBP4Jf2OfJMPg4lajpTx0G4b9yd4uyxP1Nu qkdeel7T8dH/Wl1m9KX3nWIpYdaKbbkfH9OM2pk19HgS+Gcv56OZzZ1PqueBRtDR4S6R CCBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680964122; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RDQ3ZhxDA7o55ZNDtYoGd9Ome9xLmrhEZpMJL/P8dns=; b=TlURoe+bm+Dfeyu6EJZEktlVPeor7tiB8IJIFM0gJNFz6jNqojYnS9KuPb+KwAbn8J ZK4NfI2CypDFoF7PXMUdS5tGIDRBtSrQrg3fenfOKdjSDlraBJPoCTLvZFE0Eo8ZFAQA CqHzpQV3xioXdxZMhxLKsEla3eqbDiAYkNxNDOKcEsTMAeG4xuV3yx/yNooLuQFNyrJI 8oTOtdcFzo+GLNr+vzLMpFYv7BByE4MP/6Lt78IAkNvqD95qwc5dROlVhZCrCIjmhNq1 7q9ZszWnK1Fpyv0G/pyS07lMaFpqe9qAeoBIl6dMJ8ahec+hBPtGBt8bkxbVoha3PiP6 Ieng== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dBQT8puD78J42ANNVMqj3ujUbYt/j6jy3Ho69hSyW7J7GFJKT2 TtjG2zaqUHc94l805Vpa9I8CLsHOf1GaZG9e7GMcwLcN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Y20dsEK2c2MUnL/jOqC5/rHGcXQKiR/YwEQxMKJylkua+fDgQJFW5Lwp2GLYpoeYVsltmUvaiPnqm58ZMPB5o= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8895:0:b0:623:129f:6269 with SMTP id z21-20020aa78895000000b00623129f6269mr938569pfe.1.1680964122120; Sat, 08 Apr 2023 07:28:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305188 Archived-At: On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 11:28=E2=80=AFPM Richard Stallman wrot= e: > > I suppose there's another, even more abstract concern with open sourc= e > > software that is developed specifically in conjunction with a SaaSS > > business, > > I can't be certain which program(s) you are talking about, but I think > you are referring to the free version of LanguageTool as "open source" > rather than "free". Nearly all free programs are open source and > nearly all open source programs are free, but normally we care whather > a program is free, and we do NOT care whether it is open source. > https://gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html. > > I think you must have chosen to write "open source" there to convey a > point, but what point was it? > I'm attempting to refer to the project and/or development process maintaining the primary distribution of the software. When a program is distributed as free software, but the project that develops/maintains/distributes that program exists in part or in whole to promote either a proprietary or SaaSS version of the software, I do not understand how the program and the project are effectively distinguished for the purpose of Section 8 of the GNU coding standards. That is, I do not know how a GNU program can depend on such software without promoting the associated project and effectively the proprietary software or SaaSS, under the two-step transitivity rule described in Section 8. Of course, my understanding is not required. I believe my question has been resolved - Section 8 is not intended to prohibit reliance on such software projects. > > But, would it be > > acceptable for a GNU software project to depend on such software? > > If we have free software to do further training on the neural network, > we can accept it. On further reflection, I had thought this situation would be covered under the "preferred form of modification" rule, in that the dataset used to train the algorithm (NN or otherwise) would be considered a form of "source code". It seems I was mistaken on that as well. > Does LanguageTool use a neural network? I do not know. Lynn