subr-x on Elpa

subr-x on Elpa

[Artur Malabarba]

subr-x has a ton of useful macros and functions, and it would be nice
if it were available to packages that support emacs versions down to
24.1. So I'd like to make it into a proper package and put it on GNU
Elpa, if possible.

AFAICT, the only place where subr-x won't work with 24.1 is in the
`when-let' macro, which uses `macroexp-progn'. But `macroexp-progn' is
a very simple function, so inlining its definition is trivial.
If I do that, all of the tests in subr-x-tests.el pass with Emacs 24.1
(except for one, which explicitly uses cl-reduce, but that has nothing
to do with the function being tested, and even that one passes if I
load cl-lib too).

If I do that, would it be viable to offer subr-x on GNU Elpa as well?
(of course it would not be removed from lisp/emacs-lisp dir)

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Stefan Monnier]

> If I do that, would it be viable to offer subr-x on GNU Elpa as well?

Like we do for seq.el?  I don't like this duplication very much, but as
long as they are 100% identical, I think it's OK.


        Stefan

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Artur Malabarba]

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> > If I do that, would it be viable to offer subr-x on GNU Elpa as well?
>
> Like we do for seq.el?

Yes, precisely.

> I don't like this duplication very much, but as
> long as they are 100% identical, I think it's OK.

I'm never a fan of redundancy, but in this case I think it's worth the
evil.
But it would certainly be nice to have a way to link the source of an Elpa
package to its built-in counterpart.

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Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Bozhidar Batsov]

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Not sure how wise it is to package something that acts as a staging ground
for things to be promoted in say subr.el, as a package. This was the
original idea behind subr-x.el - I had suggested some things to be added to
subr.el, but they were deemed somewhat experimental, as some people weren't
convinced of their usefulness. So, provided things get moved from subr-x to
subr, which I hope to see some day, this proposed package will get out of
sync with whatever is in Emacs itself.

On 20 May 2015 at 17:33, Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > If I do that, would it be viable to offer subr-x on GNU Elpa as well?
> >
> > Like we do for seq.el?
>
> Yes, precisely.
>
> > I don't like this duplication very much, but as
> > long as they are 100% identical, I think it's OK.
>
> I'm never a fan of redundancy, but in this case I think it's worth the
> evil.
> But it would certainly be nice to have a way to link the source of an Elpa
> package to its built-in counterpart.
>

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Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Stefan Monnier]

> But it would certainly be nice to have a way to link the source of an ELPA
> package to its built-in counterpart.

I still hope someone will take up the challenge to work on the
tarballing and build scripts so that we can bundle GNU ELPA packages.
I hope we can do that for 25.1 so that `company' (for example) can be
included in Emacs-25.1 without having to move it out of GNU ELPA.


        Stefan

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[joakim]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>> But it would certainly be nice to have a way to link the source of an ELPA
>> package to its built-in counterpart.
>
> I still hope someone will take up the challenge to work on the
> tarballing and build scripts so that we can bundle GNU ELPA packages.
> I hope we can do that for 25.1 so that `company' (for example) can be
> included in Emacs-25.1 without having to move it out of GNU ELPA.

Out of curiosity, how would this work?

It sounds very simple, but can obviously not be simple otherwise
someone would have done it already.

Is there a bug or something describing the necessary scripts?

I would be interested in providing daily tarballs on my buildserver here:

http://labs.it-huset.se/jenkins/job/Emacs/

>
>
>         Stefan
>

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Artur Malabarba]

2015-05-20 16:35 GMT+01:00 Bozhidar Batsov <bozhidar@batsov.com>:
> Not sure how wise it is to package something that acts as a staging ground
> for things to be promoted in say subr.el, as a package.
> So, provided things get moved from subr-x to
> subr, which I hope to see some day, this proposed package will get out of
> sync with whatever is in Emacs itself.

Oh, that's a good point. =/

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: joakim@verona.se
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 21:02:09 +0200
> Cc: Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com>,
> 	emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> > I still hope someone will take up the challenge to work on the
> > tarballing and build scripts so that we can bundle GNU ELPA packages.
> > I hope we can do that for 25.1 so that `company' (for example) can be
> > included in Emacs-25.1 without having to move it out of GNU ELPA.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how would this work?

Take a look at the make-dist script in the top-level directory, and
also at admin/make-tarball.txt. for the instructions.

> It sounds very simple, but can obviously not be simple otherwise
> someone would have done it already.

Mundane maintenance tasks tend to be ignored, except by a select few.

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Stefan Monnier]

>> It sounds very simple, but can obviously not be simple otherwise
>> someone would have done it already.
> Mundane maintenance tasks tend to be ignored, except by a select few.

There's nothing fundamentally hard about it, tho it depends how far you
want to go.  There are several levels of "bundling", e.g.:
1- just change the make-tarball script so it includes specific GNU
   ELPA packages.   This should be easy since it only affects those rare
   release managers who build the tarball.
2- do the same plus make it so that these GNU ELPA packages are also
   included for people who install from the emacs.git checkout rather
   than from the tarball.  This should be pretty easy, but may/will
   affect everyone who checks out the emacs.git repository without the
   elpa.git, or without placing the elpa.git right where the new scripts
   want it to be.  So you can expect some complaints/resistance.
3- same as 2 plus make sure that Emacs's own packages can depend on some
   of the bundled GNU ELPA packages.

Step 3 is needed if we want to bundle seq.el, which is an obvious
candidate.

I could even imagine a step 4 where we can have some GNU ELPA packages
preloaded in the dumped `emacs'.  Tho I can't see this being used in the
foreseeable future.


        Stefan

Re: subr-x on Elpa

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 05/20/2015 09:51 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:

> I still hope someone will take up the challenge to work on the
> tarballing and build scripts so that we can bundle GNU ELPA packages.

Why not make it a release blocker? Then sooner or later Someone will get 
around to it, since it's not terribly complicated.

> I hope we can do that for 25.1 so that `company' (for example) can be
> included in Emacs-25.1 without having to move it out of GNU ELPA.

Company itself needs work, too...