From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 21:25:37 +0100 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wpdms7.fsf@gnu.org> <88adcf52-7310-6d48-ab31-5d427deaa89d@yandex.ru> <65bfd7bb-34e5-53ca-a7c1-dfd0d22eeb9d@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="7212"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 22:26:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXW3f-0001mi-T4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 22:26:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53960 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXW3f-0002pC-03 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 16:26:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56022) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXW2j-0001Sl-Jk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 16:25:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]:46717) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXW2h-0007Fb-C0; Sat, 09 May 2020 16:25:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id x2so4753388ilp.13; Sat, 09 May 2020 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XFjmEyCf3tlxILDSejntfEoDlWePDO/ZqbPZzzV3WpI=; b=OKn8LcMH2ozYo2TTxF3YchJzpLfXWEzhwShbMcb9lWB88FgD1atcyKXibWpOjQPUV2 m+HHQeQNjU/YFxBFOZbMZy/YsNif57Mm6tqCG/46IKvX6ecI3v7A978AwqVjxGf8pDcN bK7PlIR3Ka6ZpvQIcD1LsDT/K7GqRbH6V1Z68EMugzVHlUFMbkL7yPRVaWOWxrkQJ4lX 1zyr6XBsEueIcObrbbPzhqVp0LUnd9brczpfvelmDevBx6f7V0F3gdHBDy+jmEWXF4/n USoFGW1r0f1bMWwo3D06uPAIwb1mZI34Ry1V3UnWQ4yRRok6njKgPs+D/7RyvzDTfn/h mmVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XFjmEyCf3tlxILDSejntfEoDlWePDO/ZqbPZzzV3WpI=; b=eCWS8PC3LeI5Y9ON3FQa/GnIVAib7LAtKeVS+0gX3kxaVLwHUctTsQCDnlovW8oyDR 8cF3T9Kxbzs9tbh4taXL2gsqKVcmApv+yXZ+JCGI2qNIApUaWEDa+AT/6xECSYywTfUW 25iklo27k0immR9CmlB97VfGP7ge20vppJLWP0igcIG44F6tXPgAp7r0MP+2oPsnpti4 GQfK2NtYnn0opHoWIXMcRZwWrEX3pceObeZ6tfbd19XkrnQTA0X9liz50BmKkRKPTTnF 1KHz1GS/rFf4L/ATakPp/Kgy2gu+u/l5jJzJIsOKqmnIpfwBThwYqsLUi0BFxi63pKj/ EYcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pubm1iApIfy9oh9Dp+EwN8ORrlK71YoQVuJ27GGgw7XvdNdg5SKK HcOIZPMBfpTzsS0TsXT7Yd6/gU1tofTUJJR+ALE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIYPSgSSUEv0R5MbDrJs2yfl94ds9aiYMySPmu85rtlex+/m/cGNnLSGMUpl2X9PzqXV5eXPfbActoFEhiQ6Dg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:13a5:: with SMTP id h5mr3619368ilo.199.1589055949725; Sat, 09 May 2020 13:25:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::135; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x135.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249576 Archived-At: On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:09 PM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > >> problem: everybody has to read every bug report and every commit messa= ge. > > This is good. I for one would like to spend a lot less time on Github. > Maybe less happy later to see people complaining about some problems in > Eglot on Twitter, Reddit, their blogs, etc. I don't use those. People know where to reach me. If you frequent those places, tell them I'm an email away. If they prefer to complain in public in places I don't frequent, how is that my fault? > > Really? Am I breaking backward compatibility all the time in Emacs? > Not really. But that's the only conceptual advantage I could see: > changing things in tandem. To *not* break things, at least for me, > packages have to be considered separately... and then having them in the > same repo is not so big an advantage. > > In any case, it's not my main demotivator. Increased debbugs and > emacs-diffs traffic is. I'd rather much work on code that sorting > through email not related to me. There is nothing at all personal in this= . Huh? Are you saying we make too many commits to Emacs? Then make an email filter for emacs-diffs that checks the files touches, surely you can do that. Same for debbugs. > > Don't we have tests? Don't we have a (crude) namespacing system > > for those libraries? Don't we have Eli, the ever-vigilant? And Stefan > > and everybody else? And weren't you the one the one who told me > > not to worry about that when refactoring Flymake? > > Eli who hasn't found time to try out Eglot yet. Same for Stefan, I imagin= e. I thought you were concerned about protecting xref and eldoc and such. so what has that got to do with it? > Going back to xref and project.el, for instance, it wouldn't be > sufficient to submit a patch and, in the explanation, assume my > familiarity with Eglot's code. So I kind of doubt it will help you a lot= . It wouldn't be indeed. And it would not be necessary, either. This is how it goes. I tell you: "we need this interface in eglot.el, here is a patch that opens it. And you check it on its merits. And you get to see it in action, and compiled in the same test run, even.". It's really standard stuff. ? > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-08/msg00415.html > > Yup, it was a big rewrite, and Flymake was not used as much as e.g. > Eldoc is. I'm not saying you can never break backward compatibility, > just that you *usually* cannot break it. But I _didn't_ break it, is what I'm saying (in fact flymake-proc.el should still work as far as I can tell) I'm just pointing out you weren't as concerned about it then, to the point of encouraging me not to worry about it. > > Really, are you telling me this? Do you really think I (and other > > developers) need > > to be actively annoyed to be reminded of that? A file isn't enough sepa= ration? > > That's not the point of GNU ELPA at all. > Um, of course not. GNU ELPA is our repository of recommended packages. Right, so you agree with me. GNU ELPA It's not a way to "remind developers= " of the need for modularity. Maybe you missed this: Eglot will always _also_ be in GNU ELPA. And it has to be compatible with Emacs 26.3 so it cannot abuse new interfaces. Jo=C3=A3o