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WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:49:43 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87k12bdgx7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1wi7a8o.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdteybt.fsf@runbox.com> <87368wrvf5.fsf@yahoo.com> <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> <4923d7e98f5ed816a7569093dbc673153adcea88.camel@yandex.ru> <874krex73o.fsf@gmail.com> <87eeqctgb4.fsf@elephly.net> <83wo43xom6.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1u9vnr3.fsf@gnu.org> <09632e8ec343ddee558b18f811ef6da77e594f55.camel@yandex.ru> <83pn9tvhta.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu4xvari.fsf@gnu.org> <1faa5c4154ea49a2d10d16741dfad8451ef27abd.camel@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000097de1b05a898662e" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="71579"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rekado@elephly.net, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 21 15:51:21 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jn0NV-000IVv-0o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 15:51:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50638 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jn0NU-0002pJ-2O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:51:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56136) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jn0M9-0001tG-9G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:49:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c]:47102) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jn0M7-0002El-CP; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:49:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd2c.google.com with SMTP id a12so3042970ion.13; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+BmNtydAQKNcsm1F/qzdIM06pzGzF4uX+b3b/daRZsI=; b=s8s2Cg0rTNnM+ECrC+a8fkEbszqwZLfGGcpHsmIV6H5gRTkUilGYS/tMMVmfpa4mTl 1QxazRW4leuG2Oc/S+OpM5rjV6AGYEWy79l7O4ht5Z/cVlPEzqeK+veGFtgWrRW/E3La 7DNWPnqse3wOpz/aXRIWmIqQhFxruRoRFPiabFcdIVDVhxm08vIEVrYfS3iYhRIw5x76 1+znuGyF6Xkm6u8Ep6fFZvgU2W7kPzfL7b+qYKrK87h34nK1dlKpU98N6GFPdDCmcNHx TZTYJxnmj7xV3ob25bSQCKRyws8h0yxm18aRCc70coobIQQCpepf028ip076ohR9TPlZ ksog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+BmNtydAQKNcsm1F/qzdIM06pzGzF4uX+b3b/daRZsI=; b=oebm+poHYK0jipkyIhU355urEmMkKkgsqboVcxQJmFrRdItcwmudWPR+BLkcfLlrKG SFUwWaFs0a6OrXUGnOHHJNYP32Hcdm9idV6hvSIb4JL8L36Gm5RV7cLJjm92lIwXqEcT qRLNif+GC3fj/sq2ihuLX7kdX19vqgp54UtAPIHLc3oB8d6DpCzs7cNjvs3BkCaf/EsS UNOOu1jUg0z0SWgdq2ahhXAj8FCHyZKXYDZWoi2qVsAv7DyyQFXlwdsICAM8iMwR2zh8 AB/vbHEsknb6sNhTVeP5yh2O5sanY/Qmojl5pVHNjMjzXZsGXrI3/sCPD6t0spkOOdB7 Yd2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532SLwE71xcTcoMInJij++4Tl3kmpk57tLzfHWrklQ9HEyuWGadM yAH/TP+qCfK0PrQc/T4aZoHoLtwD8rVnrX2b5H0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsGLX5E+0AMxvwrzo/fNRX/ykl0uY2shmvxc4hpEchMAT3YwLw/zgp8U5pOX/g5X5GRYQMvSp/3/e0K1kRAss= X-Received: by 2002:a02:b697:: with SMTP id i23mr12533356jam.78.1592747393276; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 06:49:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1faa5c4154ea49a2d10d16741dfad8451ef27abd.camel@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd2c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252491 Archived-At: --00000000000097de1b05a898662e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 22:31 Konstantin Kharlamov wrote= : > > > > I also don't think GNU projects are any good to make examples of. Thi= s > is my > > > general experience of seeing how new projects get under GNU umbrella > to get > > > never heard of (which I attribute to points listed in my starting mai= l, > > > since > > > most of them are unspecific to Emacs). > > > > I hope you realize how saying that makes your opinions matter much > > less, do you? > > No, I don't. I think what Eli and Ricardo (and now me), are trying to alert you to is that starting a discussion about working methods of GNU projects from a position of such a broad disdain of such projects ("not any good to make examples of") is nonsensical and likely leads to your arguments being ignored, regardless of how sophisticated they are (even though they aren't)= . Jo=C3=A3o --00000000000097de1b05a898662e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 22:31 Konstantin Kharlamov <hi-angel@yandex.ru> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> > I also don't think GNU projects are any good to make examples= of. This is my
> > general experience of seeing how new projects get under GNU umbre= lla to get
> > never heard of (which I attribute to points listed in my starting= mail,
> > since
> > most of them are unspecific to Emacs).
>
> I hope you realize how saying that makes your opinions matter much
> less, do you?

No, I don't.

I think what Eli and Ricardo (and now me), are trying to alert= you to is that starting a discussion about working methods of GNU projects= from a position of such a broad disdain of such projects ("not any go= od to make examples of") is nonsensical and likely leads to your argum= ents being ignored, regardless of how sophisticated they are (even though t= hey aren't).

Jo=C3= =A3o


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