From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 18:36:53 +0100 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <87d07xamrg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878silajdl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tv18pyh4.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83zhaih0oz.fsf@gnu.org> <83pnbegsvm.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5hby1.fsf@gnu.org> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="91601"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 19:37:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXTQ0-000Nj0-JP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 19:37:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51584 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXTPz-0001Ng-1i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 13:37:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXTPP-0000LU-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 13:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]:41117) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXTPO-0005w6-PR; Sat, 09 May 2020 13:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id v10so1202140ilq.8; Sat, 09 May 2020 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pa9oV2gA+4FgKpOL4T/HAuJ4LcU3R0u7oPrBS47ZHyg=; b=io3Bi0FFPceoO55VdnRIQjt1Vownrf9pom62owe+z01O7DjMbbsO9k/d7Z/QI3fRha bukwcyXTzwUNDuty3bw2S2416fxsQcW+D6fFqYPVgSlDjqkOVZL9g4DX75OkZd5npHi7 U1bTNqym8eQ25JemdcveXQucUrpqVR2+bz+SjDCyeU88s4lj5Cyut57eNfZPnmebjiLV ngXq4dnR1vBkRM2BngV4HCItsfzDB9Gr6f7PeUTLvRPodcSLWsZU6G2BDYvnvXzyy02N VWcxd2zyCv2aiiqHHYDPHfGkaidZtWQhSzDj0z1yW4T5MERMi0KyXw0f3Gd6SQxOMAeG yhZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pa9oV2gA+4FgKpOL4T/HAuJ4LcU3R0u7oPrBS47ZHyg=; b=CmJ2D8c88L+C7sVqj7/lX0VGDDNAe7mU/oCMPB722E5oGcqgQvcIKplxYPrf7cyRc/ 4aZu24p5GAPegPjovxjSFnkJbfQupxAgHKgJ1ahWDGcoR+EUaa7pOxUwQx7frIgm3f9P 5xtiARO2UAqjjQNcHGX5leMIamUGcP3NrQtb3LnXRbGe/DyM5wFYdwZvgRPsGdUFKBFr 22mUaLBshu8ImX83RZbxaNyT8ylhdgltCT1VmhTfeAJLLETfJjsfSYOyans//taZLUfC IdhClDMXTPJBAhFWJBW9R2Y6RxHGt8kxL2DXn6L1N0s8jnzcOuihtcjiKyEqYS41uRMy uGIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuayCZZtYSWu9MNSHvVNE6uY8cb0aLIPPqwJPKizz8lkO+Q4f4Km xfzCP+N95UB/bO+YcOtgvuiYDXm0VWnuJ0c/ZSiKCpELt5I6Pg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIjJRy8sRZsxkSsoRfqN6In2R27dZAJIhV92Fs1GR/e3bYFHMBEeIO9ZL4Qzc1AMceA7wK3nbxNAEnZhWEdDmQ= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4a11:: with SMTP id m17mr8499552ilf.125.1589045824856; Sat, 09 May 2020 10:37:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x12b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249520 Archived-At: On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 6:23 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I didn't mention tree-sitter in my message. So why are you talking > about it? Because you said "or similar facility". I assumed it would be tree-sitter. > I understand all this, albeit not on the same level of detail as you > do. What I'm saying is that from my POV our goal is to go all the way > towards bringing this technology to major modes. The instructions to > turn on this support should include everything that's needed: > installing packages, running the LSP server, customizing the major > mode, etc. etc. -- everything that's needed to have the mode run with > LSP as its backend for these language-dependent features. > > IOW, just having a mode that can talk to the LSP server is good > progress, but it stops short of the goal I think we should target. OK, sounds reasonable. In that case I put it to you that the best way to make it happen is to import eglot.el into the core, help me convince the maintainers of the major modes to add a few lines to their code, and enhance eglot.el to automatically download server programs. We _can_ do this without importing eglot.el into the core, by adding to hooks and having and/or having a few defvars and maybe cl-defgeneric. But adding it to the core is a simpler way, IMO. eglot.el is a single file library, by the way. > > Anyway, it is is because of this loose coupling that Dmitry says > > that Eglot could live "forever" outside of the core. And it's mostly > > true. But I do believe that if it were in the core (like if company.el > > or an equivalent library was in the core) that would help even > > more CC Mode users (or Foo Mode users) discover LSP's advantages, > > especially if Emacs also started distributing an LSP server program > > for C or FOO. > I'm aware of the controversy regarding what should be in core and what > should be left on ELPA. Heck, I'm part of that controversy. But I > don't think we will ever be able to come close to resolving it > regarding Eglot unless we have support for it in major modes ready to > be turned on. Only then will people be able to try it, see if they > like it, and then have some real basis for opining whether it should > or shouldn't be in core. IOW, the level of success in having the > related features beefed up using Eglot is IMO a very significant > factor in forming people's opinions about making it part of core. I agree I think. We that people like you try it (and eventually contribut= e to it, i.e. by fixing bugs, or pointing flaws) with little "pain". I think the easiest way is to do what I described above. Jo=C3=A3o