From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 20:48:30 +0100 Message-ID: References: <237fe643-c14d-5406-b35d-a30dcd42c5ed@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="61182"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nic@ferrier.me.uk, =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Helmut Eller To: Andrea Corallo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 06 21:49:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jWQ2s-000FjA-Ag for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 21:49:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56826 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWQ2r-0005bP-CN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50244) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWQ28-0004kc-5r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:48:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]:36831) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWQ26-0000Pr-W8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:48:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd43.google.com with SMTP id k6so1756125iob.3 for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 12:48:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DTUqNYh1LeOkovZ1K+Hlyqv7lAo4xHVP9WWa2W7h0SA=; b=qr3oJrhzNdJ4C4FXhlozo3W4Z7riPI8xHJrRZIvR9R9hHGIhrcZ3X+J//gby7pfEUl tyJVHPl1ZjyNPX/k7caYPtcNDiK2/iiVZ93kv6nIUPQzQdBMI2Dpyp6cU4xgOlvsXFiv 2JERcN3T3aXxSzJL1ygBHgnntmJ/0a2buN5BbXDbm4k+TvUGem53e/fVYS69WArW+BF3 aAY1k/AdGHIEHjwP1UPGiY1GHk3Q/JmbBk5YE/vtncuIIQxsrkh+f+KBcSwtA4C0rCzY 8HY5bumZ/mX4zean9i4uW6YK6GIZUptoc65A+DoYWSWrdDXVK0hM1Pb6bChIGxk+JvnN EGvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DTUqNYh1LeOkovZ1K+Hlyqv7lAo4xHVP9WWa2W7h0SA=; b=OD1/3P4bM+BudBDofvt8ycE1ZwPfB5d9zdJt2TKrMG6aKUDu1a+nhHWywyVydvst/Z RiFqD8VbV3lwMZwYlXnukWPA9YNeMVDgXZnRvsH58QqszPhw6yIyEQtY65zitkRiStOx w20rjJVkfy1soevOTDA/kn0sB28QfinJPL8zo5M1WeER+ZmoMFCj7HvmbAqJynQ1PcjV IwGIWbK+cYEiLRDl2NoDo4jQq71lC/xcZVWCcoVrJfzkvqsnnA8x7ZfkYMyKplzIRl89 RJWn38hCtD+3/8HjZQCaw0vGUdHWCP+kuTVnSnVmEKwbvhLBoo/3nw3lyobhRVM0bWqD phBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYH+/qOSBqgqPGSgVdEzFd9hl3SPeVKePX7XoEylrbiTOHMmHB3 ECYmtwhYKBO87kVLBefwh9X5ZSOW+cZeUfGJYLM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLq/tyTwDwEII6GOWPuNgJJwsN4RGFYwo03E6f7k+RtW/3if0f03G3eYG5uc1lKtUQ9VSQMOGBcqmpGH2VXsSg= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3805:: with SMTP id f5mr10462990ioa.156.1588794521740; Wed, 06 May 2020 12:48:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd43.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249118 Archived-At: On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 8:07 AM Andrea Corallo wrote: > No, what I suggested is to split symbols from bindings because only > these seconds are the ones causing name clashes. AFAIK your argument goes like this: CL packages are a bad idea because, when you use them like this other system that is not CL packages, they don't work like you want. This is circular. It will infloop this thread. This is why I encouraged you to study it, because you presented an odd example that seemed to indicate you didn't know understand how quoting works inside package. I apologize. You _could_ have said you that some other namespacing system X is also _sufficient_ for the problems we're trying to solve right now and then proceeded to justify that. E.g. you could say X is easier to implement, is faster at x-time (where x =3D run/compile/ read), has a less verbose interface, fries omelets, etc. That would be a productive discussion, quite different from sidelining a valid alternative with a circular argument based loosely on taste and no demonstration of technical downsides. Jo=C3=A3o