From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some improvements for cl-flet Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 21:27:43 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87bl4zqnqn.fsf@gmail.com> <87czpe4rj2.fsf@web.de> <874kaqqxe7.fsf@gmail.com> <87y281cowz.fsf@web.de> <87sfxdr2ds.fsf@gmail.com> <877demdb5w.fsf@gmail.com> <87tuhq20tp.fsf@web.de> <87czodcgby.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004ebf1705ce05725b" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11206"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Michael Heerdegen , emacs-devel , Richard Stallman , Stefan Monnier , akater To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 10 22:28:33 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mZfQv-0002jI-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 22:28:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59704 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZfQt-0008OV-EW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:28:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44612) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZfQJ-0007hi-E7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]:37710) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mZfQH-0005pb-SJ; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 16:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id n11so9408970plf.4; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:27:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QOQZTEkYRHn67FDry2VCnE/Z0y6yX8nF4kBtO57uFsE=; b=XstFqGeXVi0+O/80uLz7cau3z3s/7X5T3z4I0+osB5S7tfh3VmzUkdZUzzvtUrUrbt lxGtMhWlQVeAiVGMQUOKa0oPftvnVq/7kWyqpPY55HTze+OsR3xPRUy7Y68Vw/HQmti7 8GxqfjuTEzDBwHwOBL3bz2DoionUleYl9mgVz+cbG9BNq7Fu2hiSNKEGSBTcEhbyEq1s mehoGj9OTEClBYR4iiReOoqbRX9rEfgykvQi1lBWrybN6jIu+Of5GjHb5oFxb77Qecht DpXj2Ohm3TnThkSRAHPEgxvJwIfsD090nnHbyCRA9nieD9eRpWoyQpUwMNLXR+RP1Fa4 2NJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QOQZTEkYRHn67FDry2VCnE/Z0y6yX8nF4kBtO57uFsE=; b=AhkNTJEOOhe1gkp05JLORMxh1cFBkNhkcr0vqZa+28CAUNPvnQa6kuUA9lOQYDa7Vn miZmMm8GdW8NZA8k6e4AUPqQTpgygi3DNzaIbAwkyVY8pcdU1XKGTGHn56IC2srExCFR xdQuBv3WK+IYR6LfSxVAE/FHjmqGtsRYn7KpAzp47CXitp5Ic0IMNcTHbOTy51ec+WMi lKD+w7mvBG8MsHgqhv0se5nNKET0DYdmxllcsMeeJkSpVi+4pHurqgEH1bnWVhqYk0M9 wn7/fTwJtKxx/+k4wF2rtyt1a9UsGxJab33SAwbmspbHxH8pBFiIndZXRiI+3IMtt7R4 gl1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531WpojOxg28fbJKWSZLYFucATgddSI9ItOEZ/Ku5NR394JKfvyj Lonf9NFgXbrcOLlsajkiZE39f5pqrHzyAaAKQa8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzL4jpdyXaxYwLAmPJjqcfKLHuPXdl+XGgzEyz0Pxzk29kaCCP0rar9uKJrxxhJyP0noJTx9RfCxmYTFRrOJ0I= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a60e:: with SMTP id c14mr26393506pjq.70.1633897671473; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:27:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87czodcgby.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276693 Archived-At: --0000000000004ebf1705ce05725b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 11:46 AM Po Lu wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > Practically speaking, how important is it to access the same variables > > as simple variables, rather than using an explicit macro to access them= ? > > > > I think it is very important to maintain the principle that a > > variable's value only holds a sexp, that _seen from Lisp_ accessing or > > setting the variable cannot "do" anything. > > Yes, but SYMBOL-MACROLET is relatively common in Common Lisp programs, > which in itself warrants its inclusion in a Common Lisp emulation > library, IMO. > > And it being one of the macros that Common Lisp programmers writing > Emacs customizations often reach for, I hope it will not be deleted. As do I. There's little reason to delete any functions from a Common Lisp emulation library, IMO. Emacs Lisp, like any Lisp worth its salt, is a programmable programming language, one should be to emulate anything with it, including Lisp idioms that may not be unanimously appreciated. Jo=C3=A3o --0000000000004ebf1705ce05725b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 11:46 AM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Practically speaking, how important is it to access the same variables=
> as simple variables, rather than using an explicit macro to access the= m?
>
> I think it is very important to maintain the principle that a
> variable's value only holds a sexp, that _seen from Lisp_ accessin= g or
> setting the variable cannot "do" anything.

Yes, but SYMBOL-MACROLET is relatively common in Common Lisp programs,
which in itself warrants its inclusion in a Common Lisp emulation
library, IMO.

And it being one of the macros that Common Lisp programmers writing
Emacs customizations often reach for, I hope it will not be deleted.

As do I. There's little reason to delete any = functions from a Common Lisp
emulation library, IMO.=C2=A0 E= macs Lisp, like any Lisp worth its salt, is a
programmable p= rogramming language, one should be to emulate anything
with i= t, including Lisp idioms that may not be unanimously appreciated.

Jo=C3=A3o


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