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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312475 Archived-At: On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 2:43=E2=80=AFAM Po Lu wrote: > cl-list* is just one example of a theme that constantly repeats itself > throughout our code. Removing this one instance is futile, You're just contradicting yourself. First, you argue that it's easy to replace and has these immediate benefits and then when someone agrees with you, you say you don't want to. Also btw, it might not be easy to replace at all cl-list* can be used with higher order #'apply in contexts where nconc can't. Perhaps you despise the programmer who wrote (apply #'cl-list* input-data) But perhaps they did it to avoid writing a multi-line raw loop choo choo train again. So it's not true what you said originally that everytime you find a cl-list* it can be cleanly replaced by nconc. Not if you understand or even appreciate function composition. > since there's plenty more where it came from. The only remedy is > for everyone to develop a general aversion to cl-lib. Be consistent: find the places using simple forms of cl-list* that presumably (as you said) are the only motivations for the whole cl-lib.el 27kb loading. I didn't check but this was your opening argument after all. So do that and you'll have effectively and consensually helped Emacs's code base. You'll be closer to your dream goal, using Emacs without loading cl-lib.el. Be consistent with your words, else you're just hand-waving and advocating for irrationality. "develop a general aversion"??? I like to think of programmers as scientists, not acolytes to some sect. Jo=C3=A3o