From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:50:24 +0100 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="10821"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel , =?UTF-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 06 15:51:30 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKSP-0002ee-Ht for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:51:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50950 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKSO-0001YQ-HJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 09:51:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKRg-00016W-6b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 09:50:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c]:37494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKRa-0000qk-M2; Wed, 06 May 2020 09:50:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd2c.google.com with SMTP id u11so2256259iow.4; Wed, 06 May 2020 06:50:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fvLvI0jRX6i1XbuxpK7dJooXkd4k40fqPG9/5MX/bEU=; b=FYMUljPSVVfuMzWE5/1zKHwn3rAs57DEa8xWVatTICyQvuHIKR7jtwJG0MUcLQJheg uHsXn/LAHURYORa7ounyLih1wB2bk6w3dgEsg61ytH+cRxvfc/aSVUJwkKRFZTZ6+vQu Gnuha2t93rpg0Z+OmcXUl5vY9dtmRTOP5gcE2k8ck/eC/V03USmGom4u8ddtOPZVJ4fA l+r+9E7MrEB3m0nBBV4zV7mfXR2fHxF8hp8Gs61FckZ38ZuTYIj/ZZxpmPG5/lfVOHLm UxRPw55OnU11lN+Q/mzbRVG1QphEg0essATUJaSd8nr7efHsnDmDXzZ4IAQJFeCL/9WJ TeWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fvLvI0jRX6i1XbuxpK7dJooXkd4k40fqPG9/5MX/bEU=; b=edXCxFrUVv/TKEd9cWCFkM8gHZVGlV6LX3mEeB7sAAQ6+5e1MlMq3Svqm26/QVDxT1 45ufsOpCqfie+74YKa3P4XdVYJ0jmdLI8YaOAQPKbSAbES/bOBgOA90EtDsY4eho1mFk 8ijFvYyx56SGuNBAr/D8y8dQcZY/qnKvarpQ4lxLBAZ25o4oS59asX2meRvQGlLneImU 8GPELOkWV1aCwSZnN9zvp7trA5Us0GOKkA7BbvhYXTde6Y+pxvgadAGzjJcVsfx/2+wJ FowXqBL99bd3oN/QgPL1DvpcC65hhsZ8AZkKCmzT/TiF3WpFYkvwMYkqy1+bLCdX9FeU zInw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaAL6uRkwl4WpM1qD2kvRrbSP1XzdhD+4Gm1Fw0Jv4WwB4CTXoV t1hsgBxN79AuapGs2MivdY1aCEUswbB/sp/6mPc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK1vIEr9lDqyobAn5MyR2SJ4RUIC3AQFA0DBRaiBGe1/1TmtiNGYaqZFrlC0s90OsbzIABsM+1wsUkU44pxl7g= X-Received: by 2002:a02:b09:: with SMTP id 9mr8480316jad.24.1588773036423; Wed, 06 May 2020 06:50:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd2c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249085 Archived-At: On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:37 PM Stefan Monnier wr= ote: > > > This is not a moral issue. s.el is free software; it is not evil. > > But we have to exercize good technical judgment as well as moral judgme= nt. > > We don't want people to make their Emacs Lisp code depend on s.el, > > because that would not fit into Emacs well. So we should avoid > > encouraging making Emacs Lisp code depend on s.el. > > I have the impression that you don't live in the same universe as mine: > in my world, `s.el` is already used by the majority of new packages even > tho it's neither part of Emacs nor of GNU ELPA. Yes, but that does not make Richard's technical points less valid, I think. Though, Richard, I do think it is somewhat immoral. It is somewhat immoral not to let widely used and Free software into our universe just because we don't have the technical apparatus to control the damage it would bring with it. We should all work together to acquire that apparatus instead. Jo=C3=A3o