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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 18:44:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <25989.50971.995591.385250@google.com> <87a5q0dc9m.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000007da09060d31badf" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3337"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "T.V Raman" , emacs-devel To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 23 19:45:43 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rH70I-0000be-Rs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 19:45:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rH6zY-0006lG-CV; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:44:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rH6zV-0006kl-7R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:44:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rH6zQ-0004qv-Kg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:44:51 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cc6d9b4c6aso30848771fa.3 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:44:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1703357086; x=1703961886; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ARQIWo7UVRiCHEYW6p71o/HeT+J9mPs3YXeoTMVyivI=; b=c23esgE6COvjEYto22wODbWUlFWLC19vEyOuSVkKND3H4JDo37BIXDcDZpDoT/HukL 5ox3KqkRi9VdAJH1AbGFTRZjArfLghWqwDU00Gr1ql8kg90GMZnOirhnDy36Xrnjoyd0 9zBfmzc0WAUpGK2LQTTOWefFPwo2gSjzQyO949QX97pZOV/l9NH72ygQe3Ja5oS42pQQ J0/jBkulB/qz4y/G8s0GXKJYSJiQvrND+NjjsbexSyS0mZE1WEABN2yojZkQWQR1X8FB jBEX6Kkf6jHeP9rZ2dIw+gxy2jX4TUDARzHTNphjdUJB0TczS4zoJQW+y0wWWiC+bGt1 Bm9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1703357086; x=1703961886; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ARQIWo7UVRiCHEYW6p71o/HeT+J9mPs3YXeoTMVyivI=; b=ri7dibnQK82wlKDt39xGCQ7nRJR2ONc6GaITO6saZjeSGWrPTj9X4YbEBEPzALqiko RlXyEbj0KjwRx+h7NvZq1bMFnESQG9QloVIozeDpVAPDv22E+srupenOPFVU39l4M5yz FQV5uozNdI1byJtpZakrzxUDd0aHYq4TNph8mVYzLLWFSjTitliNgyrv/4svydWoQLT3 29YScW5OqycFvpmshlNVyprmi1oTqZkSMHC6g+hCNCLURAIy2yQLZxdQCM5up8HpJYGd XSZcit+rF7ua5pnDaZJ8/slKRIrGSw7yRpFm7YnJDXC0cLSANkIr2O99VCpuQJjt/P3e we5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx9EQPKN9fQkiVNgu9tP3aU9HCm71qM2bYjfRtaGzF1avtExWht jjwPAEDool1dNG2aNnG11gibhYt0JO7b+c1prdFQp5HP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGxy0dRoun/eSeaOdFOaggZv2pExyTN/18J3pn3MgY7WfsQX5znx546zC3DVxMSRUU0O0pRE76oQZ6iY00VQQw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:980c:0:b0:2cc:6fef:d80a with SMTP id a12-20020a2e980c000000b002cc6fefd80amr1337096ljj.4.1703357085898; Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:44:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87a5q0dc9m.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::232; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x232.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314107 Archived-At: --00000000000007da09060d31badf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LOn Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 18:03 Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > > > Another way to fix this issue is for the org developers to not deal wit= h > > macro expansion-site recompilation problems so aggressively, and making > > more use of the "call-with" idiom whereby a macro immediately expands t= o > a > > function that has all the frequently-changing implementation details. > > May you elaborate? > I have already elaborated a while back, but on a tangent deep down in a thread and I'm on my phone right now. So maybe these links would give you an idea of what it looks like. http://random-state.net/log/3390120648.html https://www.reddit.com/r/Common_Lisp/comments/okvgf0/examples_of_callwith_s= tyle_in_macros/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D12476032 These are all common lisp related, but there are, I'm fairly sure, numerous examples in Elisp, though not necessarily named "call-with". Let me know what you understand of the examples before we continue. You may also want to elaborate yourself on an example of a macro that is emblematic of the expansion-site recompilation problem that, as I contend, you fixed somewhat heavy-handedly and lead to these recurring irritations to many users. We can see if we can fix that example with with the technique I allude to. Jo=C3=A3o --00000000000007da09060d31badf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LOn Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 18:03 Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
joaotavora@gmail.com> writes:

> Another way to fix this issue is for the org developers to not deal wi= th
> macro expansion-site recompilation problems so aggressively, and makin= g
> more use of the "call-with" idiom whereby a macro immediatel= y expands to a
> function that has all the frequently-changing implementation details.<= br>
May you elaborate?

=
I have already elaborated a while back, but on a tangent = deep down in a thread and I'm on my phone right now. So maybe these lin= ks would give you an idea of what it looks like.
<= a href=3D"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D12476032" target=3D"_blank= " rel=3D"noreferrer">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D12476032

These are all common lisp = related, but there are, I'm fairly sure, numerous examples in Elisp, th= ough not necessarily named "call-with". Let me know what you unde= rstand of the examples before we continue.

You may also want to elaborate yourself on an example of= a macro that is emblematic of the expansion-site recompilation problem tha= t, as I contend, you fixed somewhat heavy-handedly and lead to these recurr= ing irritations to many users. We can see if we can fix that example with w= ith the technique I allude to.

Jo=C3=A3o
--00000000000007da09060d31badf--