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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299561 Archived-At: --00000000000045ee5905ed30c232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 09:35 Gerd M=C3=B6llmann w= rote: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > > I don't agree. Symbols are at the heart of Lisp. Changing their > > > semantics is a big deal, and as soon as that features is in, it wil= l > be > > > used. > > > > The shorthands feature is already installed, but it doesn't change the > > sematics of symbols. > > I don't agree. Before shorthands, a symbol had one name, after, it can > have many. > This is incorrect. You're confusing the text manifestation of a symbol in a Lisp form before it is read (as in CL:READ) with the symbol itself, which has only one name. This didn't and couldn't change with shorthands. Deciding to use it not use a shorthand is no different from deciding to use or not use package qualification for a symbol in CL packages. Neither changes the name of a symbol, just the manifestation is different. If you force them to be the same thing, then no namespacing symbol is possible at all If you conflate symbol name and symbol designation/manifestation in source files , you'll have problems implementing any package system (CL, shorthands, whatever) and you confuse people trying to understand any Lisp package system, i.e. you confuse this discussion. Let's try to avoid that := ) --00000000000045ee5905ed30c232 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 09:35 Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com> wrote:
Richard Stallman <rms@gn= u.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.= ]]]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> I don't agree.=C2=A0 Symbols are at the heart of = Lisp.=C2=A0 Changing their
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> semantics is a big deal, and as soon as that features= is in, it will be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> used.
>
> The shorthands feature is already installed, but it doesn't change= the
> sematics of symbols.

I don't agree.=C2=A0 Before shorthands, a symbol had one name, after, i= t can
have many.

This is incorrect. You're confusing the text manifestation of= a symbol in a Lisp form before it is read (as in CL:READ) with the symbol = itself, which has only one name. This didn't and couldn't change wi= th shorthands.=C2=A0

Dec= iding to use it not use a shorthand is no different from deciding to use or= not use package qualification for a symbol in CL packages.

Neither changes the name of a symbol,= just the manifestation is different. If you force them to be the same thin= g, then no namespacing symbol is possible at all
If you conflate symbol name and symbol designation= /manifestation in source files , you'll have problems implementing any = package system (CL, shorthands, whatever) and you confuse people trying to = understand any Lisp package system, i.e. you confuse this discussion. Let&#= 39;s try to avoid that :)


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