From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:29:48 +0100 Message-ID: References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> <837dx99t3i.fsf@gnu.org> <831rnh9ph2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="98046"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel , "Alfred M. Szmidt" , Stefan Monnier , =?UTF-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= , Eli Zaretskii , Phillip Lord To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 19 16:31:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb3Gs-000PKf-4H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:31:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47300 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb3Gr-0000w1-5e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:31:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41168) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb3Ft-0008Mn-6T for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:30:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]:42602) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb3Fq-0005fV-Tk; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:30:04 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id e18so14699465iog.9; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:30:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FyKgzo6QwkkGljNXsNx9hZYgowMgGj7Vjri4ox8zCrw=; b=ms0sMb810NHXqko4X+rzpORrNulDxcXNHBubttSl0ZIQD+wF2UilznLdrsHxV8WUk0 H0Ut1nlCB7q9SLxtm1Gi7r6EAiU6rlhGekwkRcUO7a9sNUyQU8FMOlcOiV1bel6IqInq ag/D7qNH0NLSti8rmCeZJfEtUfNpCiKAahzR529DdKC8T7+YjNNUdvScrxqM3pK5fWoB H9MZ5pSB3LtVoJvQTz8qAc4GkjzlNaZjaRAUobaqE6xt7Jbkk3xoMlXxP2Vawa6cnqlQ FUdqEmhDgpDduhqT0NDzjhM79RpcjFe0buSd07FE3z8KjOWBJj3Bk7BIuZWsv5itpNMp 11YA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FyKgzo6QwkkGljNXsNx9hZYgowMgGj7Vjri4ox8zCrw=; b=rWqttjlfQdwf5wVt3X4Y1+OeDySXcwIyBxpoLxdbsv+Uk9+YSWwdDYT41vOzmf026x 50KTTRd2armg5Gy92jz0DMziS22CyltNfLC8ebmYh8PlpGNIbJM0goFOFJBq9BicrFeU fPKJphytFv4yRnpc+abEAvznB4uTzLv9re9enZPKQwS5Dn/8QB7ZodWx0A0t52ulqXsH 5FmmEGunBbSL8vVYsQcEUe32SvWscpoiFFf54JTyEpYfdkVWorMZbvsxCCpoAQZisEZd tFQt2g1Nq8+Ao3w4WFT5P7ywKRbeiRobDIIy/L6T3myvu+fLOum3hjXG+DN6acB5HQvJ b3Sw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532sWlL+stH7JPvIKA6+C5YXg12YtWKXShS94BWHGNHbr9aiy2AL ANOYpsAXJlhhqJpPcd7lBZu687hndPgwhE4HHTg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhh05K+myIgKE4rnlMVu9OakDU/0qxVbSs4GPU6cJjD2ObNPrhvvWedE1vxPavnER8jDwz7DZw+y7w9TlcJ2Y= X-Received: by 2002:a02:493:: with SMTP id 141mr20164153jab.78.1589898600316; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:30:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd33.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250929 Archived-At: On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 2:07 PM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > On 19.05.2020 06:53, Richard Stallman wrote: > > > > An arbitrary NEWS file doesn't mention all packages we offer. > > > > > It mentions the new ones. For the rest, we have "C-h p". Of cour= se, > > > you already know all that, so I'm not sure I understand where does > > > this argument go. > > > > If C-h p is not doing the job, let's look for ways to do it better. > > It's not like it's "not doing the job", or that Finder became worse now, > 3 decades after it was created (I just looked up its development history)= . > > The new alternative simply has more traction. It's basic usability: once > the user learns that they can install packages to add extra Emacs > functionality, they will look for more packages if they need something el= se. Let's hypothesize that's really true: then let's go heavy on the :core packages and problem solved, right? Jo=C3=A3o PS: but you hypothesis might not really be 100% true. A few years ago, a blogger called Mickey Peterson had a very nice https://www.masteringemacs.org/ blog where he went patiently over the NEWS items and commented on each individual addition. The very pretty blog theme helped. I learned a lot there. In the end it came down to someone that sat down and took the time to write something useful.