From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:22:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <83cywgwg3z.fsf@gnu.org> <838r74wfdl.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8fa9c0609e12a57" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37315"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Michael Heerdegen , emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 15:23:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1otM-0009UU-Ov for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:23:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ose-0003WH-NR; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:22:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1osd-0003W9-VT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:22:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1osc-00068t-75; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 09:22:35 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-507f1c29f25so4034066e87.1; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 06:22:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699712551; x=1700317351; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gBmGT+0LeCM91ZoxpsGA0rrnFjJhqW2zlF6ThkIoLoU=; b=DkRrEK9OziY7v26d6zTrImmpz0dfUyhCVbObf929zrwaoUcLeuDnwT8Ayr6BSPSABL IEET3J+4F16+4mk6C4ewNzTP3ediEXmh/l8fXCd9rMizEbopViq0DoXKVejBDblwU/YM B5NL4SqiVQKWj9Pb2UpmXXcQZbj1R7dYpVQyAec74qEYQH375ugekt9F0vaOCBwyIAOl ZxXDVaFW28rdxemEKMCl2/r7Jg4nq210gxkl7iMbNtfB84X4gd+Xq4PYTjuSuSZtx3PY YfNH+vXf8fxd71X6xEoWuUtIjFIMtduSWsLcybCJ6Nv2iX26sLVHpc8s77XQUwlaQPUy zFSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699712551; x=1700317351; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=gBmGT+0LeCM91ZoxpsGA0rrnFjJhqW2zlF6ThkIoLoU=; b=gL4dt+48hOzvuO5Q3UV9cGZ+mZduoD6o0sxEazBgzM6X/BffSKDgfMJmdOkqmp66xN jJOacx/LJhyd7BoByyCDBqcJTxKpTpKJMtzoNm3cLMtNdWVsIDKlOoslTDClYZg9hEgB DDv2QhB1p3YzqZHETLbsNb+Z4Cxqg7kZpG9+WDCtYqcGkeTHVIYYgcEqbUX5ljC/iEGQ xyjgUNhqDwqPwarZjPx4fJb9Ztr0Si4pX0d0RfJLfc+wrtORuotOXmReoRfiJ+S0NrwD Nhg3tCPnTlP1629EBwvDxg0939pKiZ5b8QDSJaQtICtmb7MOJkDQjZgOFC4p+5G84AxT sKKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwRU7HV4ZAP3uIxgGY/QhdE6hxtsV3HTlhfV2nOqitj+eYxPefI U1u5HQbEKLCVDmXEnKw9J3F+XKj3vdt9H3x4YNSGH7Et X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGVNi37qNtt9aEEg/HX9yni8BB4GuxT7/PkQiTD/chPmX1/u/6ls5GAxeIEB3uapBDgeyXBB5i0KfrMOKy2Kio= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:31c8:b0:50a:71e1:e1ce with SMTP id j8-20020a05651231c800b0050a71e1e1cemr1549946lfe.51.1699712551417; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 06:22:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <838r74wfdl.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12e; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312577 Archived-At: --000000000000d8fa9c0609e12a57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 14:09 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > In my suggestion seq.el was just one of the examples not the only, nor > the main, package for such additions. So making it the only one, and > then objecting only to that, is a kind of a strawman, and completely > misses my point. > I objected to that part because I generally agree with the rest!!! I even said so early! Certainly pointing out a detail I think needs clarification can't be seen as a strawman. Only if I was trying to magnify it unreasonably to bring down your whole plan, which I am obviously not. I included seq.el because I see nothing wrong with adding > cl-defmethods to seq.el with more efficient implementations for > specific types of sequences. Whether it does or doesn't make sense > depends on the specifics, which are not on the table at this time. I > certainly don't agree with rejecting the idea of adding specific > implementations to seq.el, let alone its wholesale rejection, I don't reject it either. I just wrote that seq.el can not be "viewed as a drop-in replacement", which in common programming talk means we have to look at each "similar implemention" case by case and be attentive to where we use each, or to how we recommend its usage. Jo=C3=A3o --000000000000d8fa9c0609e12a57 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023, 14:09 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> w= rote:
In my suggestion seq.el was j= ust one of the examples not the only, nor
the main, package for such additions.=C2=A0 So making it the only one, and<= br> then objecting only to that, is a kind of a strawman, and completely
misses my point.

I objected to that part because I generally agree with the = rest!!! I even said so early! Certainly pointing out a detail I think needs= clarification can't be seen as a strawman. Only if I was trying to mag= nify it unreasonably to bring down your whole plan, which I am obviously no= t.

I included seq.el because I see nothing wrong with adding
cl-defmethods to seq.el with more efficient implementations for
specific types of sequences.=C2=A0 Whether it does or doesn't make sens= e
depends on the specifics, which are not on the table at this time.=C2=A0 I<= br> certainly don't agree with rejecting the idea of adding specific
implementations to seq.el, let alone its wholesale rejection,
<= /div>

I don't reject= it either. I just wrote that seq.el can not be "viewed as a drop-in r= eplacement", which in common programming talk means we have to look at= each "similar implemention" case by case and be attentive to whe= re we use each, or to how we recommend its usage.
Jo=C3=A3o
--000000000000d8fa9c0609e12a57--