From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My perspective as a mid-level user on pros/cons of different editors Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:06:25 +0100 Message-ID: References: <251c030a-ade3-e945-d7a3-77cdbebc1812@yandex.ru> <8fe95ea3-05ad-fa40-54ab-494594348e9f@yandex.ru> <6f0014c2-f119-88f8-f3ac-1cd2575f69f4@yandex.ru> <90c406be-0bc8-f428-7928-461b42d12808@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="103388"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Rudi C , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 20 16:17:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPXQ-000Qkn-F8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 16:17:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45784 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPXP-00046u-Cy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:17:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPMl-0001hw-CB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:06:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]:45459) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbPMk-0002BB-4z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 May 2020 10:06:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id b15so3164464ilq.12 for ; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:06:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5m1IMFxseP9Nwt8uNTCo+Lt68lPCOw4+kUkwS7HSmJo=; b=eivDlDqKWiC9o79U63zKmvSV8arhktb9sr1W6/bhA1MkrAa6HtAe6rD9r3+Ztr5tsi x+215u5ddAc+UV5pPiiYAahkH53Rce05P6gqLuF71D40JtKSbEyLnTHjYe+wpNJxfNDb TMtl1EE/PMQ2gsbrVjl3X4TIWF7iG+mm7e62B1sQTJOOkLbuX6G5Rt9oIMpD39EisvWn aY72/D8nXWu937h9xG+Z3TDf6S1ufaK7FX5kD2bYTB4T0a+/6bz0Gvhazscdr4Z5AGhJ ldz70XqbFKWYUKAhYVmWgQuVKtJUCWOecPHExhkDGSxRLKoqKV2xchgb5FNf+/0Mz33R hIIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5m1IMFxseP9Nwt8uNTCo+Lt68lPCOw4+kUkwS7HSmJo=; b=FxMvstpMiKTjMxUfuTcgB2QjFIY4wCZ5lyi/eq7vg5wYMHtFhb/ElKAz5VvGjdzX9x E2AeftZUTmZIlXE1lxdjj9pMawo9ZMX89wJGg+kYkDTt0kqk54MwDf+8O6LuWgbTOgPg 6If3olwLIch4VuZ0umLg1ehFPE4HK2JA1Amb/BIoMENt+BdMn0/jL22rOfFwE47e5CiS iLnQWJ0A0VFnjPEU7xKJva16KVN8DN3D3HFb232y4jFw8bhWXUoYe6EE9p68q4YCxOyk bzuyecw05BSWyw2v7vc0wWcQ3D6sXJrSQzNmmuPyoRMaYRNJUm+cnK6oFP6TMR26V9z6 oQUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MAlpCCLvNoCb6o6AancxbgjIcMg39O2ZEDzg5sNOaUP22gT0Q UpAbihG357+4oBFIWfPHoX1YZJzLSWFg5wKpCzI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8ZB7J/2l5oRFIyR2C2p1RvHweLrKs40GfwBqGmHBsBZuKoWdnkknvmvx6GXbIVKMak7sW9PvH5fZRFoDNPGM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d40f:: with SMTP id q15mr3662953ilm.97.1589983597046; Wed, 20 May 2020 07:06:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::132; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x132.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251049 Archived-At: On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:59 PM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > On 20.05.2020 16:32, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > > Anyway, it is precisely in this sense that I try that Eglot > > provide the least amount of interactive commands and > > user options, and no keybindings at all. So that people > > "see it" as little as possible of it. > > The lack of a binging to show the doc (last time I tried) kind of hurts. There is C-h ., which you yourself suggested once. But interesting that you bring that up. I did put one now, precisely because it kind of hurts, and because C-h . should be handled by eldoc.el or whereabouts. And that is why I made eldoc.el a :core package ;-) Anyway, see https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/issues/454 > > They just see xref, project, > > flymake diagnostics, eldoc, etc. This is quite different > > from lsp-mode (at least the last time I looked at it). > > IIUC, LSP also provides extra actions that tie into refactoring, > reorganizing imports, etc. How does Eglot deal with it? In LSP, they are associated with the diagnostic object. So they go into flymake's facility of interactive diagnostics. But part of it is currently in Eglot, as commands. The long-term goal is for it not to be, as I stated. > > reduce it to `eglot-connect` and `eglot-disconnect`, maybe > > call them `start-ide-ing` and `stop-ide-ing` for abstraction. > > That sounds pointless. It's not like the users will look for 'M-x > start-ide-ing' command specifically. Why? Just tell them at the splash screen: "to start advanced IDE features, M-x start-ide-ing". Weren't you the one talking about a "how to IDE" tutorial? Or was it someone else. It sould be a 1-step tutorial in this case. Jo=C3=A3o