From: Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong <wyuenho@gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: Emacs-Devel devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:54:24 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKDRQS4bX_dTnzvWoj5mNJC3=__jUoNGp4r+uygao+V0qks=5A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <878t6lom8g.fsf@mouse.gnus.org>
>
> 1) I don't think the `paranoid' setting is security theatre. It's not a
> useful setting for general browsing, but if your use case is that you
> only use Emacs for, say, talking with your IMAP server, and that's it,
> and you're worried that you may somehow end up talking with the wrong
> server, and you're, er, paranoid (perhaps with good reason), then
> that's the setting for you.
>
I still haven't heard of a "good reason" yet. If the checks are
complete on the 'high level (i.e. checks for all known problems,
including checking your cert for revocations with OCSP+CT+CRL, use of
interceptable static RSA key exchange...), it would require some sort
of zero-day to forge a cert. Honestly if you are in that kind of
hostile environment, using Emacs to check your email directly without
connecting to a VPN first is an absolutely horrible idea. If you are
in that kind of environment, you would know it.
> But, yes, as Eli says, `paranoid' should perhaps do more for non-TLS
> connections. The question is "what", though, because there's no
> fingerprint (beyond the host/port number) that we can use to verify
> that a non-TLS connection is to a previously seen host.
>
Exactly. NSM can only warn you if you are establishing a cleartext
connection, nothing else can be done.
>
> I thought that it set the minimum number of bits (like it says in the
> last sentence), but it would use however many bits the server allows.
> The first sentence seems to contradict this, and that this sets an
> upper as well as lower bound on the number of bits, which is pretty
> horrific, if that's the case... But I don't think it is, because
> I get ":diffie-hellman-prime-bits 2047" when connecting to a DH host.
>
That's true, but there's still no reason to default
`gnutls-min-prime-bits` to 256. If that's the default, presumably
checking for DH prime bits > 1024 is a bug as NSM should let 256-bit
DH prime go through.
BTW, this bahavior pretty much we can default `gnutls-min-prime-bits`
to nil with no problem at all as we haven't seen any bug complaining
about NSM checking for DH prime bits > 1024 being too strict.
I would suggest we move the defcustom groups of all GnuTLS options to
NSM again to avoid further confusion.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-07-08 14:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-06-22 22:00 A couple of questions and concerns about Emacs network security Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-22 22:43 ` Paul Eggert
2018-06-22 23:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-22 23:33 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 1:35 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 10:23 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 10:48 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 11:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 11:55 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 12:05 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 12:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 12:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 9:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 15:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 12:45 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 12:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-05 13:33 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 13:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 15:29 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 19:26 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-05 19:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 17:03 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-06 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 18:15 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07 7:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 10:30 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 11:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 20:46 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 20:45 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-06 6:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 23:08 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-07 12:18 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 13:46 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 14:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 15:25 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 23:46 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08 0:25 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-08 2:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 22:55 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-07 14:32 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 15:15 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 15:39 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 18:16 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07 23:03 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 23:45 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-05 13:50 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 15:30 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-05 16:05 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 22:44 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-06 6:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 0:00 ` Paul Eggert
2018-06-23 0:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-06-23 9:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-23 2:17 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-23 6:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 10:21 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-23 11:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 22:28 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 14:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 14:48 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 15:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 16:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 17:10 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 17:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 18:29 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-24 21:30 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 1:25 ` Van L
2018-06-25 2:28 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 2:38 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:25 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 18:06 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-24 20:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 21:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 22:47 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 0:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 0:33 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-25 0:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-24 21:28 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-06-24 21:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 16:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 16:29 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 16:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 17:08 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-30 17:40 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-30 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 16:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-06-25 17:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-25 17:20 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-06-25 17:33 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-05 15:52 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 15:58 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 16:36 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 16:51 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 18:25 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 18:43 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-07-05 20:31 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-08 11:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 9:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-05 15:33 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 8:36 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 8:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 9:35 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 12:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 12:52 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 13:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 9:45 ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-06 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 13:50 ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-07 7:15 ` martin rudalics
2018-07-07 12:22 ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-07 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 13:47 ` Stephen Berman
2018-07-08 8:11 ` martin rudalics
2018-07-05 15:10 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-06-23 6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-23 10:34 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-05 15:58 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 19:20 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-05 20:46 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-05 22:44 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-06 6:42 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06 8:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 9:28 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-06 13:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 18:06 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06 18:48 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-07 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 9:36 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-07 9:59 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 10:01 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 21:44 ` Ted Zlatanov
2018-07-07 21:59 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07 22:11 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 23:09 ` Ted Zlatanov
2018-07-10 18:20 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 18:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-10 18:40 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 18:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-13 20:50 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-14 6:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-14 17:18 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-14 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-07 22:13 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 13:09 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-09 13:33 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 13:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-09 13:49 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:24 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 0:06 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-10 0:03 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-10 0:02 ` Perry E. Metzger
2018-07-06 13:03 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-06 14:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-06 21:24 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-07 7:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 14:54 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong [this message]
2018-07-08 15:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 16:56 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:06 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-08 17:25 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:54 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 19:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:32 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 22:56 ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08 17:47 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 18:12 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 18:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 18:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 18:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:22 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:17 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:36 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:38 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 18:10 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 18:47 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-10 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:31 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 17:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-09 17:09 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 15:29 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-09 16:35 ` Robert Pluim
2018-07-08 18:31 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 18:42 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-08 19:28 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 19:16 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 14:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 14:58 ` Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong
2018-07-08 15:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-08 15:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-07-06 16:53 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-06 23:11 ` Richard Stallman
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