From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , joaotavora@gmail.com, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 19 19:36:37 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppBjR-0005ij-9y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:36:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppBik-0007m7-LW; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:35:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppBij-0007lp-6i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:35:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-f50.google.com ([209.85.208.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppBih-0005HT-HR; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 13:35:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-506bdf29712so780370a12.0; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:35:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681925748; x=1684517748; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6JwgMJdV7l+fZwYj6PzSUi6u6VNrnLbXXgmIgih1CHM=; b=WKARpdC7LU4u4dZa0E94zPuTFTL+5SQYGQVuxhoN9ZawiM2mMq3g63EQg0YhxTM8JL gRB2SOu1/TzmZ9+Q58DjjZzkUyl17bXuJid7SkFu6p4pLMlPh57fU3Y/Jkt/bz/5NJP7 XW5cIAtbarusXBhK6KITCL1k/XSdVWxEwgxAudOyum5lXnvzqD9yWBkNUu9GL8pL//Ze VzZesqVFI4Yg7m9saAOVmq6Hzk9WugnMqtvpM4RczfGhv19TF6dmKVwSFxR+9SGPEiiX j9x+Zpz9nBgT/QqSzzCAOv/b1f9WVd1PFZTA4iZ9KcBV+cf/rmssZQfrwpKfmILHLKoZ Fu9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9estsLjmQrPnNYNyH+7JfM7xCin4I/iQym/C1coZ0cggcRV4DE2 agQ8d/7gAer9AvLykKT8vMuub0Yeow9I+dkze+kdMDCK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bIO9PRZtQvruvEbuarChF3otx2LZqhFMxyCK3HD3VD8ze4kAY9x4gWfUVht57Q+AbS6PTx6TRQOKjPLILjxMA= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:ca4d:0:b0:506:c238:4067 with SMTP id j13-20020aa7ca4d000000b00506c2384067mr3592436edt.8.1681925748246; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.208.50; envelope-from=john.yates.sheets@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-f50.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305446 Archived-At: On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Specifically, users of Emacs 28 and older, who had Eglot installed, > and expect Eglot to be automatically updated upon Emacs startup > whenever a new Eglot version is available, will now have their > expectations broken after they upgrade to Emacs 29, because Eglot is > now a built-in package, and package.el won't by default upgrade a > built-in package. > > OTOH, the proposal to change package.el so it automatically updates > built-in packages as well would break the workflows of people who > don't expect built-in packages to be updated: they would suddenly see > packages like ElDoc or Xref or Project (and others) being updated > automatically at startup instead of staying at the version shipped > with Emacs. Full disclosure: jumping in without having read much of the prior thread. Perhaps package.el should allow a user to declare whether (s)he wants a stable experience or a "rolling release" experience. In that way the issue is no longer a function of whether a package is :core or not. My initial thought was that this would be a single, global toggle. But I c= an also imagine more granular choices (stable, rolling or unspecified) per package archive and per individual package.