From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:21:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36060"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philip Kaludercic , danflscr@gmail.com, Richard Stallman , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 31 18:25:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mL6Zc-00097F-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 18:25:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51154 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL6Za-0003ZJ-6k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:25:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41420) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL6WL-0000GJ-Fq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:21:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-f52.google.com ([209.85.218.52]:36848) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mL6WJ-0008Dt-TN; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:21:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f52.google.com with SMTP id bt14so40094141ejb.3; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:21:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fT0dgN/w9UFvSWDY6yWnJYqMGGgbZ92z58CUVohIRNk=; b=Deh/Dv9tlt+kskbx19t7Sr1ax11lUb00c/b6etG/mlxyqVlB4uauNDpGj2KzdAa6sK T4cDL+NCGUpWicX5M89g4k9q3y7yU66Tn8T7Ie8f/z1rnMMIVluySBlkf4tQ8P6C3azY mIx+hXl9xICF30rKB7yYhBPIUQb9DNCOUjaP9ZCqDmI+stQjZvcMdhjKhgBK0ALUzznZ LtWXxsO+6TCOYw4Mg9C2+FJodleulWmhnBqd3S99j6ekVo+RGCEVsySrZvkyEkX5yCNr kDHB5fZnhYqQpahF7mO0mfdRsS9pEuXuEx92ezlfe9CM9Q9pKfpc+9CuUry4oIFWn1vr B51Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532kf4q763os6ZUpz9N2Gic37uLMyT3rwJtT1RPGTUoNtiCocrAS PURarnYc25VagpjNyCxeqGctNuZGQ/XYRG/p9Yc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTUxFEDo0wrcH6gUyCzeeuU8sGFx8AjNlHQLCbiOhSEF+Z1Dy0BY2RdLvFFgCs9l3rNYVsQL4ut5zO5c9LhUM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:404:: with SMTP id d4mr31620757eja.449.1630426912533; Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.218.52; envelope-from=john.yates.sheets@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-f52.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273610 Archived-At: On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 7:50 AM Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > appealing to newcomers (and/or trying to adopt contemporary usability > practices) is of much lesser priority than, say, making sure that each > key binding that has been with us for a number of years, is left > unchanged for ever. We hate to risk inconveniencing existing users. I agree with Dmitry. I would love to see the community be more open to change, be it key bindings or new workflows. I have been using Emacs since Lucid-Emacs at Apollo Computer in the mid-1980s. I have a massive .init file. Still, I welcome change and evolution. Other technologies that I use on a daily basis evolve, even those for which I develop muscle memory (e.g. my smart phone). I accept such change and can even acknowledge that some of it represents progress over time. Other changes I put up with just to track the herd and not be left behind. I wish that we were not so determined to proudly go it alone. Our stances often remind me of this ditty: Here lies the body of William Jay, who died maintaining his right of way. He was right as he sped along=E2=80=94 but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. Any changes that can attract new blood have my vote.