From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Consideration for Rust contributions in Emacs Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:22:44 -0500 Message-ID: References: <878rhuc79x.fsf@gmail.com> <66c86c61-93ac-4723-81a4-ced034f61550@Spark> <87zga9tln8.fsf@web.de> <83cz75i3iu.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21644"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arne_bab@web.de, comms@dabrev.com, allred.sean@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 23 19:24:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pK1UD-0005PO-RI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 19:24:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK1TR-0007pa-Nq; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:23:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK1TO-0007nS-PN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:23:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-f42.google.com ([209.85.218.42]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pK1T8-0006V2-OQ; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:23:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-f42.google.com with SMTP id az20so32941591ejc.1; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 10:22:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=aonKdOQpj4BDTJYuDNYOeA3DfsNMsUdxJF2KQIpY7+E=; b=tSO4XCJse75v9TvW0ihnKQrRZskrkS4kDgX1XYzn6QGn6B5nnDOXYYGCsDK4c3Zm4Q audN32uVbmSsQxGaWGXlPe+dO59rF3/Piqk6D+JynVmqhsjOdBo038jDeD4L18Lz1ZmG fmm8+HjYHFGymc1OMwpsiInDiX+LFxh8TVTIxDSriOCZ0aVUdMoVD4OcspAmvOVA0Wpv GziUoNa/cFYcSADEWQ5nZHwde5kb9yV1KSnJ2s+jFjVdT+PgFpHmcJ91fNlNHshFYvaC 5F6TuUrj9AJW+ZWqgjV1t3xLqteddJUhs7MO33XsNejd2xcUDkHVwxMdrIi16Hhw97ZK Ajuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqO9VdAGFBncaobYB17BRe1V8JBs18EbAz9Bp3SemeaK1dTLVHK PlWsYcqPElP3NZeAkS0SZuYWUv/32Oz61JECPpYt3an1RlA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXv64Zn12dahsea1xbjqYGYEOV0zGeTHyxc9dgCauv0f7JhJfzi0S2t0682xvMhqrVP7tnZLJxy95JcEtLIQm44= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:1ed0:b0:871:6b9d:dba with SMTP id m16-20020a1709061ed000b008716b9d0dbamr3364865ejj.543.1674498176450; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 10:22:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83cz75i3iu.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.218.42; envelope-from=john.yates.sheets@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-f42.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.149, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:302619 Archived-At: On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 12:06 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Quite a few new features are still being implemented in C. Consider > just the recent innovations: native-compilation, tree-sitter, support > for XInput2 and touch devices, to name just a few. Of these four, only tree-sitter seems to be implemented in C solely for performance reasons. IIANM, there is nothing fundamental about what tree-sitter is doing that *could not* be done in lisp. The only issue is performance. By contrast, the three other features that you list (native- compilation, XInput2 and touch screen support) need to interact with the host environment. From what I have observed, developers typically partition such features into a C component and a lisp component. The impetus seems to be to find a natural partition: to do in C what must (which may still include some performance considerations) and then to expose a nice, clean interface to lisp. Part of what went unsaid in my previous post is that there have been multiple occasions where code migrated from C to lisp, often to make it easier to maintain and/or extend. I am sure that there must have been instances of migration in the other direction, but none come immediately to mind. > Moreover, familiarity with the internals implemented in C is IME quite > necessary even for Emacs developers who almost never touch that layer. For some definition of Emacs developer, I do agree. (Though, as a C++ developer who, decades ago, left ancient C behind, and having recently spent time noodling on the periphery of the display engine, I can tell you that wading into that code is "bracing". :-) /john -- John Yates 505 Tremont St, #803 Boston, MA 02116