From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 18:23:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5610207A.2000300@harpegolden.net> <83fv1r3gzp.fsf@gnu.org> <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b339d4b1a35080521dbab85 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444602277 11949 80.91.229.3 (11 Oct 2015 22:24:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 22:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers , Dmitry Gutov To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 00:24:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlP2T-0007Sr-7t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 00:24:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49964 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlP2S-0002XN-9L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 18:24:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlP27-0002X1-Cq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 18:24:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlP26-0005PE-DS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 18:23:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]:34766) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlP24-0005Oy-OW; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 18:23:56 -0400 Original-Received: by padhy16 with SMTP id hy16so135971360pad.1; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ds0jZe1tU+lwrCT4x28v9kvOe8UnlPoi2pgcwT9QeO0=; b=GRPfxYevrdqlD6lu1egFmY8tra4qWrVEWAQkxIpw83FbDi9pzP/s+c+HKo0pV+WJ79 4KGK0spu6VZNraYHmtnJp+rLDGRL2185hA3C3ExkvsHAfUFs+5Yhg6NC8obYiNcDw3nf DG5oVhxSy2iHdbocckiaO9ZMOzLbycTM8ijPn1PZkkpNkr2fKz4EqZDvp7pyOGBxRLWx RYPBMEXdE8W/bjFw3RmqXTkhreA4Gu3f/IEOxzMSPbHFNojTtT52YbeFx7JO9s+VtJSd jzI3g7CD7hzKe7u57w1vorgEiAs8x9oNuUoiKlJ3aLojPQ2tAL5nlgZmElO/LOlJXEPn NZoQ== X-Received: by 10.68.242.2 with SMTP id wm2mr30959913pbc.31.1444602235726; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.66.159.101 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: wUQa3mjrz2CUFzd-u-d4gw0zbQw X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191286 Archived-At: --047d7b339d4b1a35080521dbab85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > Emacs with GUD is an IDE. Wow Richard! I get that you probably have never used an IDE. Have you ever had one demo-ed for you? Please assure me that your grasp of modern IDE functionality extends beyond what that statement suggests. I can never recall a time when anyone working in the tools and development environment areas would have concurred that Emacs+GUD constitutes an IDE. > It has a big advantage compared with other IDEs: when you see a source file, you're editing it with Emacs. > To what are you contrasting Emacs+GUD? GDB with only a command-line interface? GDB with TUI? For decades source display integrated with visual indications of the locations of breakpoints, and highlighting the current execution line has been the absolute minimum ante for debugging support within an IDE. If it falls short compared with other IDEs, I think this would be a > great area for improvement of Emacs. > I use GUD + gdb-many-windows. I put up with its quirks, shortcoming and idiosyncrasies because I am an old geezer devoted to emacs. And I would love to see an improved debugging environment. But no amount of improvement along those lines will give Emacs any stronger claim to being an IDE. /john --047d7b339d4b1a35080521dbab85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Oct 6, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:=
Emacs with GUD is an IDE.

<= div>Wow Richard!=C2=A0 I get that you probably have never used an IDE.=C2= =A0 Have you ever had one demo-ed for you?=C2=A0 Please assure me that your= grasp of modern IDE functionality extends beyond what that statement sugge= sts.=C2=A0 I can never recall a time when anyone working in the tools and d= evelopment environment areas would have concurred that Emacs+GUD constitute= s an IDE.
=C2=A0
It has a big advantage com= pared with other IDEs:
when you see a source file, you're editing it with Emacs.

To what are you contrasting Emacs+GUD?=C2=A0 GDB wit= h only a command-line interface?=C2=A0 GDB with TUI?=C2=A0 For decades sour= ce display integrated with visual indications of the locations of breakpoin= ts, and highlighting the current execution line has been the absolute minim= um ante for debugging support within an IDE.

If it falls short compared with other IDEs, I think this would be a<= br> great area for improvement of Emacs.

I = use GUD + gdb-many-windows.=C2=A0 I put up with its quirks, shortcoming and= idiosyncrasies because I am an old geezer devoted to emacs.=C2=A0 And I wo= uld love to see an improved debugging environment.=C2=A0 But no amount of i= mprovement along those lines will give Emacs any stronger claim to being an= IDE.

/john

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