From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs and XDG Base Dir Spec was: persistent storage for Emacs packages Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:31:16 -0400 Message-ID: References: <201310202119.19244.thomas@koch.ro> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c622078478a04e9404ce5 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382362288 11824 80.91.229.3 (21 Oct 2013 13:31:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Thomas Koch , Tyler Smith , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= , Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 21 15:31:32 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VYFa0-0007jo-2n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:31:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYFZz-00037E-HH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:31:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53200) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYFZv-00036D-62 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:31:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYFZq-0004rK-07 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]:59939) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYFZp-0004py-Li for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:31:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id l12so3977336wiv.14 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:31:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=N8r48d5Lc/1pjWEY0/b1TRIYjfmr0/YRFvlwz6cIxE8=; b=flElIBbQKBDfilQut8aZKBnDUwvGn5ZTw/VV/oQLt/6dhHoJdoYrOt8EpJ7Q8w5iDU 5oAmRWn69Uqso+DbXK1ZFgybMCPKBpFaE7hJhpzZZB72yn4Z/uwO8d2prkJ7FobWEy+G F17cIb4sr6iEJFg5QuB+lqZ3jMBnxVGnxOwmRs4Vrp8aFoIsjdW8LX8ZHXdEDlTZeJB1 hSuJ3FXfGMLd5+g6zr/5krDhQLIbTPSL7BWoqZTE4VJwlzcIcIYVZOoDo5L0NoxqLiOv TXImGaz8vmB2rAcS6dxei3JSfqQgzI3xeYyjXaKar89ODMBfLcXX7mN9cTwX7MZm1FqC a1FA== X-Received: by 10.194.173.163 with SMTP id bl3mr14067845wjc.10.1382362276968; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.95.226 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:31:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: rT_IBg2E8uYzvTT4Wr0VT8VDj-c X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164416 Archived-At: --089e013c622078478a04e9404ce5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I found the discussion at the bottom of this page (Thomas Koch's 2nd reference) helpful: https://wiki.debian.org/XDGBaseDirectorySpecification#state Decomposing emacs' use of external storage more or less according to the enumerated criteria is simply good hygiene. It does not means that you have to embrace the freedesktop standard. In my own case I have already partitioned my emacs world into ~/emacs/ (a non-hidden directory containing elements I manage via github) and ~/.emacs.d/ (everything recreatable). In particular, with the advent of better package management I put all downloaded packages beneath ~/.emacs.d/, on the theory that they can be recreated via download. By contrast I put the configuration for those packages in ~/emacs/. /john On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > The freedesktop standards tend to come and go and change quite a bit. > > Are we contemplating this "standard" for non-freedesktop systems also? > > We could work our way slowly in that direction. > > Currently ~/.emacs.d is pretty messy, so it might be good to try and > "clean it up", and along the way, we could try and integrate some of > XDG's suggestions. Not sure how much of XDG would be useful, tho. > > E.g. we could start with a ~/.emacs.d/cache/ directory where all the > files that can be reconstructed would go. Tho there aren't many such > files, IIRC. > > But w.r.t "config vs data" this distinction is far from clear. > > Still, we have the problem with ~/.emacs.d that many users put their > elisp packages in there and then add it to their load-path. I think > we should at least try and detect this usage and emit a warning (but > we shouldn't just say "don't do that", so we need to agree on > a recommendation of where to put those packages). > > > Stefan > > --089e013c622078478a04e9404ce5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I found the discussion at the bottom of this page (Thomas = Koch's 2nd reference) helpful:


Decomposing emacs' use of external storage mo= re or less according to the enumerated criteria is simply good hygiene. =A0= It does not means that you have to embrace the freedesktop standard.

In my own case I have already partitioned my emacs worl= d into ~/emacs/ (a non-hidden directory containing elements I manage via gi= thub) and ~/.emacs.d/ (everything recreatable). =A0In particular, with the = advent of better package management I put all downloaded packages beneath ~= /.emacs.d/, on the theory that they can be recreated via download. =A0By co= ntrast I put the configuration for those packages in ~/emacs/.

/john


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> The freedesktop stand= ards tend to come and go and change quite a bit.
> Are we contemplating this "standard" for non-freedesktop sys= tems also?

We could work our way slowly in that direction.

Currently ~/.emacs.d is pretty messy, so it might be good to try and
"clean it up", and along the way, we could try and integrate some= of
XDG's suggestions. =A0Not sure how much of XDG would be useful, tho.
E.g. we could start with a ~/.emacs.d/cache/ directory where all the
files that can be reconstructed would go. =A0Tho there aren't many such=
files, IIRC.

But w.r.t "config vs data" this distinction is far from clear.
Still, we have the problem with ~/.emacs.d that many users put their
elisp packages in there and then add it to their load-path. =A0I think
we should at least try and detect this usage and emit a warning (but
we shouldn't just say "don't do that", so we need to agre= e on
a recommendation of where to put those packages).


=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Stefan


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