From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:38:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> <83y2lfcdq2.fsf@gnu.org> <83d02pdb7b.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16686"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, Ergus , Emacs developers , Yuan Fu , Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 18:39:55 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHV2h-0004FV-GL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 18:39:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHV2g-0001JC-Fw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:39:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHV1K-0000GX-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:38:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com ([209.85.167.45]:32822) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHV1J-0005Ja-7k; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:38:30 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id x77so10873554lfa.0; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RTDMRiueg4bzonD+XM5SNc40vmRSarRQcBn7/Z3pDmI=; b=YcZ3wLcmLCZX4F72IFv2i9DXTkTYTVPXYlBitcw2hvztDcYHJyhmJrk3sciWjlEjDE KtDqJjRgEFHO0c7YC7bsvYbfUpsxWysAW2oe5pFbNyGWf2kO7ch5kcxYAjjUb+RzJYnw EWmC6FszxwM0fanVgtwxDzNA/QgT7FwuugCrwA9R8F6UJPmjbnkt996HCJ2//hUBW4Qh QQyG7PM+LnUKMFq7rJF/cehUXPe1ulVJ2ngtaJkvy603zRzajCOyBpmTdQOU4hY5PgFO Tf/X/rbY+Df3YbP60gRtBNAyBzM8d0s9eUIZTwgtTdbzN13KxbQY4a62nDRaQWQAhM/a koVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532znpngNGtltmAut/4B6hYDNakx3Xiv6fSHhQKTuSczi0kImj9G UqYsljPcsLY3DJzYEJwxdubwAA7MHmME74QMQKbd6TRmePgF7w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0P7zHpRPsjn3NltBmEbXMRr8QsmLfPyLpBpD05duUIYfmMZrptlvVJvcf2L6fre+/kOgWZUZmbum5Zz2IbdU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2027:: with SMTP id s7mr3298134lfs.75.1600015106109; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:38:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83d02pdb7b.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.167.45; envelope-from=john.yates.sheets@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-f45.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/13 12:38:27 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255521 Archived-At: On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 10:05 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Dmitry Gutov > > > To my knowledge, if we want to come close to what those other editors > > show, our current best bet is icomplete-vertical (or something similar > > to it) PLUS a packages that moves the minibuffer to either the center or > > the top of the frame (or makes it seem live the minibuffer has been > > moved, of course). > > Those have an annoying misfeature of causing jumps in the window above > the minibuffer. Over the decades, as I have moved from a 24 line VT-100 to 32" 4K / 3840x2160 pixwl monitor with more than 80 lines of text, one of the least pleasant changes in using emacs as has been the distance my eyestravel to reach the minibuffer. When a buffer contains fewer lines than its window the text is vertically justified against the top of the window. Thus my eyes regularly flick from screen top to bottom and back. Furthermore, where previously, on screens with fewer lines, the minibuffer remained within my field of view, today that is no longer the case. IIUC, the misfeature to which Eli refers is a desire to preserve visibility of a window's top line in the face of window resizing. That is surely not unexpected behavior. My guess is this model springs from a desire to keep as much relevant context on screen as possible. An alternative UI model would be to think of growing a frame top minibuffer as dropping down a shade over the existing window(s). This dropping down would not trigger resizing. Instead it would obscure as much of the visible window(s) as necessary (at least until the shade hits a window mode line or lower border). /john