From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Yates Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:45:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5610207A.2000300@harpegolden.net> <83fv1r3gzp.fsf@gnu.org> <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83k2qspzx6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b15a47f6a70c80521e531f0 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444643172 13493 80.91.229.3 (12 Oct 2015 09:46:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Brief Busters , Richard Stallman , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 11:46:06 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZg2-0006rQ-Bv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:45:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54156 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZg1-000899-Ad for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:45:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37240) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZfy-000894-3m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZfw-0003Lm-V8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b]:33657) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZfs-0003KB-Jp; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:45:44 -0400 Original-Received: by pabrc13 with SMTP id rc13so15036531pab.0; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 02:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=h2LosUch+I8oD0gwGYAasiN/ARYmVXmH3JFRN71m7Jw=; b=gliZyzdTQxGuh0l6FtD0720OM9YwXHfHnMigQ6fGcB+mAI1jlabkHyif1NsoVSA9y0 5QH5DuncNVrSMNCTUmds7jpvm8UAUkYnQ2EgKJFY7uCKixaNBWY1T7z7v+SABsC0ZwT9 wxV3/SUs+QlUYDfFYSA4sTI4e1sdh+tFcUYt7H7yRwWpS4cBxYz4DzykNRzUYr2lHXFi blj+kpRp6yr5DIju+Ry9N2VmHXQ1jeRDASi0dakxqwiKlbLzIqO1Kz9dzT+x8Ce7bXko lCqOPX5qnr6IvWtHBYKakuxxHRregqDp/XHYRAkB/KkEo/qHSLI0tQhGueLxj2lh13S+ L4nA== X-Received: by 10.66.240.37 with SMTP id vx5mr33159505pac.76.1444643143837; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 02:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.66.159.101 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 02:45:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83k2qspzx6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4nsXBrHWHbvIZP6HAk3cTM0Ciuc X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191308 Archived-At: --047d7b15a47f6a70c80521e531f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > All Richard was saying that a debugger front-end is an important part of > an IDE. Eli, With all due respect, while you may interpret Richard's words in that manner, that is not what he wrote. I quoted at the top of my posting Richard's very first sentence that started this extended thread. Here it is again in its entirety.: > Emacs with GUD is an IDE. Given the amount of influence Richard will exert over efforts to fashion Emacs into something approximating a modern IDE I believe it is reasonable to wonder how familiar he is (or is willing to become) with such technologies. When we had the long thread some while back about supporting completion and refactoring I got the sense that Richard was unfamiliar with the functionality and user experience of modern IDEs. IIRC he committed to seeking some outside guidance which might have included becoming more familiar with the current state of typical IDEs. If that has yet to happen I wonder how John's anticipated f2f discussion with Richard will go. /john --047d7b15a47f6a70c80521e531f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Oct 11, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrot= e:
All Richard was saying=C2=A0that a debugger front-en= d is an important part of an IDE.

Eli,

With all due respect, while you may interpret Richard&= #39;s words in that manner, that is not what he wrote.=C2=A0 I quoted at th= e top of my posting Richard's very first sentence that started this ext= ended thread.=C2=A0 Here it is again in its entirety.:

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0> Emacs with GUD is a= n IDE.

Given the amount of influence Rich= ard will exert over efforts to fashion Emacs into something approximating a= modern IDE I believe it is reasonable to wonder how familiar he is (or is = willing to become) with such technologies. =C2=A0When we had the long thread some while back about supporting = completion and refactoring I got the sense that Richard was unfamiliar with= the functionality and user experience of modern IDEs.=C2=A0 IIRC he commit= ted to seeking some outside guidance which might have included becoming mor= e familiar with the current state of typical IDEs.=C2=A0 If that has yet to= happen I wonder how John's anticipated f2f discussion with Richard wil= l go.

/john

=
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