From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yilkal Argaw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Builder, a build system integration for Emacs Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 06:34:50 +0300 Message-ID: References: <95980ffc-86e7-ad54-4a20-539d8c6ea5d0@mailo.com> <83edn4myz4.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5xsmuc0.fsf@gnu.org> <831qj4mlg7.fsf@gnu.org> <3a315ddd3aa7d7cda74e@heytings.org> <87jzwspr4t.fsf@yahoo.com> <828A9E8C-125E-42D9-A03E-CC6611E6AC90@yahoo.com> <84fefa6fb3324f972847@heytings.org> <875y8aou86.fsf@yahoo.com> <84fefa6fb336ac04652e@heytings.org> <87sfbdnvxs.fsf@yahoo.com> <66738b9275126f75a710@heytings.org> <87ilc2lbny.fsf@yahoo.com> <66738b9275c5bc3b0cf3@heytings.org> <87a5xel1mq.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000097b99105fe4afcf7" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33499"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gregory Heytings , Madhu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 17 05:36:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qAMjq-0008Xl-Ni for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 05:36:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAMie-0001HT-Rx; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 23:35:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAMic-0001HK-Jo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 23:35:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oa1-x2e.google.com ([2001:4860:4864:20::2e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAMiR-0005XS-Mp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 23:35:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oa1-x2e.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1a98cf01151so1519623fac.2 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 20:35:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1686972902; x=1689564902; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/0V04grobk/tzcEY3+Zp0hdk3LgLQzxZas3xZu7cVQY=; b=s138nGPkSJKqlh5HAuJv4uLPxasUa0874LaWHUNEc/iStmoUewAsEgypU2e+A/F4NE UWw67WKmymiwMwKIlRH7X8d1VVxU9qU09pweQ7+de/B7NwZ3VcHtyb5OkB+0HHrakJIJ 0HNt6TtnUL7mwSoJEPAr3C5AhVz4vOk0LWy7b2ZU1XQT62d70TLoG8sPhATiU7w835ii wKrzZdPxYaOvR8jT59qcnQU1K/KhViMzoTFl1uXFEuKniyavXHPO5dRUwQ8Decksp5N0 Blm2fPvQ1m//cph3ocdLPSO4Q0+TYDZiJsocL0hIMqpk+zPcr2P7sYcDFtKI1BWUV4MN +/Xw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1686972902; x=1689564902; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/0V04grobk/tzcEY3+Zp0hdk3LgLQzxZas3xZu7cVQY=; b=jlcKGuiPFsUxiYzxe5hTclM/Cf/oEM+1aa2OdjtGWbo05gPe3tn1jAJk6mRIE4jzYc 5GHQmdmJRnBZVJJ7qMU8rQpDWBD9U0STLp26AZ1N10IJQP5e7PyGFyNpfBXZ/mwItv4V 34eLUhiZw0edmgk7pEQteleAPv/3kEeZGqF0BpaSEI9Cv47FL0Vf8ckb2dBQIDjxpx97 wx/0cyZSJWE5ljadzzLZLH4Jiiu+ZUHsqPk1h8IotQYC/9KncNMNGix7+sQgNdKBGx3R HrTsDxMlt3jNucmgEjEMXeYbQ6uJcrJ9DFwqWdGprQp6QPKWBonH3DhwvM5qx41e8DWw p2kw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwt8H6nkMyJLL70ERo4aNXxOCOnlLRXl3eaFe7hBj7lkjIoP0EK +Ty+iz8YTIm7Jiqir1wWc9A6+jo8+owr2UkXlng= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ7M/e75C2uAWvH1IfI/VSckmkIYI/kAvD+HePF21wWSClMcs728HCQG2HeOjm0wUXNqnJsCEvn0YpQ3SGCiyek= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:76a9:b0:19a:733:53c3 with SMTP id dx41-20020a05687076a900b0019a073353c3mr1076915oab.35.1686972902388; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 20:35:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87a5xel1mq.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:4860:4864:20::2e; envelope-from=yilkalargawworkneh@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa1-x2e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306848 Archived-At: --00000000000097b99105fe4afcf7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't understand why the discussion devolved to the merits of cargo. The original proposal for the builder package would be useful as a general feature to work with any build system. If I have a build system X I wrote myself which fulfills all the gnu ethical requirements, it would allow me to have a convenient generic way to interact with it through compile and the build systems cli. If that is the case I don't see the harm in having a general way to suggest completions for compile based on project basis. With Regards Yilkal Argaw On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM Po Lu wrote: > Gregory Heytings writes: > > > No, that's not what we are discussing. Once again, "what is being > > discussed (and was objected to and characterized as a "horror") in > > this subthread is the fact that all versions of a library are > > available at compile time, to ensure that programs that depend on a > > given version of that library can still be built when later, possibly > > incompatible, versions of the library have been released." > > > > You now conveniently try to shift the focus on "the language". > > Since different versions of various libraries require different versions > of the language, it is a very relevant subject. > > > That's abstract theory (and it ignores the fact that even the > > "Standard C" language evolves: C23 will be released in a few months). > > Standard C evolves, yet it takes pains to remain compatible with > previously written code. Very few programs require anything newer than > C99. > > > In practice, Emacs 27, released less than three years ago, cannot be > > compiled anymore without a patch. > > Except that it can be compiled with a single update to Gnulib, a > procedure that everyone knows how to perform. > > --00000000000097b99105fe4afcf7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't understand why the discussion devolv= ed to the merits of cargo. The original proposal for the builder package wo= uld be useful as a general feature to work with any build system. If I have= a build system X I wrote myself which fulfills all the gnu ethical require= ments, it would allow me to have a convenient generic way to interact with = it through compile and the build systems cli. If that is the case I don'= ;t see the harm in having a general way to suggest completions for compile = based on project basis.

With Regards
Yilkal Arga= w

On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org> writ= es:

> No, that's not what we are discussing.=C2=A0 Once again, "wha= t is being
> discussed (and was objected to and characterized as a "horror&quo= t;) in
> this subthread is the fact that all versions of a library are
> available at compile time, to ensure that programs that depend on a > given version of that library can still be built when later, possibly<= br> > incompatible, versions of the library have been released."
>
> You now conveniently try to shift the focus on "the language"= ;.

Since different versions of various libraries require different versions of the language, it is a very relevant subject.

> That's abstract theory (and it ignores the fact that even the
> "Standard C" language evolves: C23 will be released in a few= months).

Standard C evolves, yet it takes pains to remain compatible with
previously written code.=C2=A0 Very few programs require anything newer tha= n
C99.

> In practice, Emacs 27, released less than three years ago, cannot be > compiled anymore without a patch.

Except that it can be compiled with a single update to Gnulib, a
procedure that everyone knows how to perform.

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