From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rustom Mody Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: APL mode Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:51:22 +0530 Message-ID: References: <2556707.G5KkrEK5zp@descartes> <2175241.EV4ttzPlpJ@descartes> <52603276.70404@harpegolden.net> <87ppqqt4s8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382962910 27835 80.91.229.3 (28 Oct 2013 12:21:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:21:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Sauermann?= , emacs-devel To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 28 13:21:56 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ValpT-00074o-2H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:21:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41171 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ValpS-0007Qu-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:21:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42628) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ValpO-0007Nf-1y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:21:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ValpI-0005K5-U5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:21:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]:46064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ValpI-0005Jy-Ml for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:21:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f182.google.com with SMTP id q10so7019930pdj.27 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 05:21:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=4iAx7/v0f3MXAEUg4mS6FJ2TLvhqSbsVvFwezlVG9aU=; b=Q9W4C8M06S9ZDsWRvLiMHPAIs7yHJ9IU0xvSw2tSFjz9a1lVEq7OGe2KRpvMp37cmj UuBK9y9gtAn/sXgq6hR/9x4OYm/2nV5hCL95w83cZK0g9JncH8t4Ef1F0COCWyKDiiey De+HA3ZWouqBe/h2YjcRCvCasx6r6dAaBm+wnu0kYrJJIwl3wmEjyQ0VA87zTkownnb4 qowi6Ro7MxMZPz/edK0nebTjKZvt63+IuyLUVPCrx6DUKPfUilmumoiHwDb5zES+bB/m ynsXQQ8agoYy/t4U4Uzeh1hQZ2+f186YXyhquHh9/GmbV37sKAGEchphrnGMxe3q9Ajq 0BCw== X-Received: by 10.68.4.232 with SMTP id n8mr21433892pbn.9.1382962902804; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 05:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.68.233.74 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 05:21:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ppqqt4s8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164595 Archived-At: On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > While I agree that it might sounds unEmacsish, key-sequences aren't > > that bad compared to key-chords. > > Not in my experience ... but I only use key-sequence-based input > methods for Spanish (<5% non-ASCII characters) and Japanese (80% of > characters requires multiple keystrokes no matter what input method > you use, and in the very popular "romanized phonetic" methods, all > characters do). > > I cannot say I'd not be unhappy if the ratio got to 50% or so. > > Steve For the specific case at hand (apl-input): I think that we have got (thanks David) to a solution. $ setxkbmap -layout "us,apl" -variant ",sax" -option "grp:switch" gives exactly (as far as I can tell) Juergen's solution -- a chord-based one using alt -- so not nice for emacs users With $ setxkbmap -layout "us,apl" -variant ",sax" -option "grp:rswitch" lalt works as before in emacs and ralt switches to apl layout With $ setxkbmap -layout "us,apl" -variant ",sax" -option "grp:alt_shift_toggle" we can have a sequence based one -- alt-shift switching to apl and back For the more general discussion: Is a key-seq preferable or a chord: My general preference is to type as little as possible :-) Combine that with the fact that a chord is bit more work than a single key and a bit less than 2, we have: single-key better than chord better than sequence Clearly if we had to type-in ALLCAPS the capslock would be good. Since mostly we never use allcaps, shift is better. The same principle applies here: if I need to keep on giving some input-method herald like '\' I would much rather give it once. If one would look at typical APL code eg http://aplwiki.com/FinnAplIdiomLibrary one would quickly see why! Rusi -- http://www.the-magus.in http://blog.languager.org