* historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
@ 2019-08-17 11:02 Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2019-08-17 11:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
Hi
I know that Emacs used various VC systems, RCS, CVS, BZR and finally
git.
I got interested in the first commits, so I run
either
git log --reverse
Or since I converted the repo to mercurial
hg up 1
In both cases I see:
ommit ce5584125c44a1a2fbb46e810459c50b227a95e2
Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
Date: Thu Apr 18 00:48:29 1985 +0000
entered into RCS
commit ff9c6df4b0766bef72f6b1f4c8fca65737d9ad6b
Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
Date: Sat Dec 14 16:58:10 1985 +0000
Initial revision
What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
project and
Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
redhat in 1985, really?
From wikipedia:
Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the
conversion process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
Regards
Uwe Brauer
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 11:02 historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?) Uwe Brauer
@ 2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-17 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 13:02:37 +0200
>
> commit ff9c6df4b0766bef72f6b1f4c8fca65737d9ad6b
> Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> Date: Sat Dec 14 16:58:10 1985 +0000
>
> Initial revision
>
> What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
> project and
>
> Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
>
> redhat in 1985, really?
>
> >From wikipedia:
> Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
>
> This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the
> conversion process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
You are looking at a log that was significantly edited by the various
conversions, including the email addresses of the authors. CVS stated
just the username, without any email address.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-17 12:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-17 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: oub; +Cc: emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 15:14:28 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> > commit ff9c6df4b0766bef72f6b1f4c8fca65737d9ad6b
> > Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> > Date: Sat Dec 14 16:58:10 1985 +0000
> >
> > Initial revision
> >
> > What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
> > project and
> >
> > Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> >
> > redhat in 1985, really?
> >
> > >From wikipedia:
> > Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
> >
> > This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the
> > conversion process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
>
> You are looking at a log that was significantly edited by the various
> conversions, including the email addresses of the authors. CVS stated
> just the username, without any email address.
Here's the same commit from CVS log:
revision 1.1
date: 1985-04-18 00:48:29 +0000; author: jimb; state: Exp;
branches: 1.1.18; 1.1.20; 1.1.24;
entered into RCS
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 12:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-17 12:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 13:37 ` Uwe Brauer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-17 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: oub; +Cc: emacs-devel
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 15:18:03 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> > > commit ff9c6df4b0766bef72f6b1f4c8fca65737d9ad6b
> > > Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> > > Date: Sat Dec 14 16:58:10 1985 +0000
> > >
> > > Initial revision
> > >
> > > What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
> > > project and
> > >
> > > Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> > >
> > > redhat in 1985, really?
> > >
> > > >From wikipedia:
> > > Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
> > >
> > > This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the
> > > conversion process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
> >
> > You are looking at a log that was significantly edited by the various
> > conversions, including the email addresses of the authors. CVS stated
> > just the username, without any email address.
>
> Here's the same commit from CVS log:
>
> revision 1.1
> date: 1985-04-18 00:48:29 +0000; author: jimb; state: Exp;
> branches: 1.1.18; 1.1.20; 1.1.24;
> entered into RCS
Sorry, that was the first commit in the repository. The one above
corresponds to this one:
revision 1.1
date: 1985-12-14 16:58:10 +0000; author: jimb; state: Exp;
Initial revision
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 12:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-17 13:37 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 14:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2019-08-17 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 509 bytes --]
> Sorry, that was the first commit in the repository. The one above
> corresponds to this one:
> revision 1.1
> date: 1985-12-14 16:58:10 +0000; author: jimb; state: Exp;
> Initial revision
I see, the strange thing is that it seem the first file checkin was
unused.el.
I would have expected emacs.c or something like this.
The question is how reliable is the conversion? It seem to work
reasonable well for the part which concerns bzr, but I am not so sure
about the RCS stuff.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 13:37 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2019-08-17 14:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-17 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 15:37:03 +0200
>
> > revision 1.1
> > date: 1985-12-14 16:58:10 +0000; author: jimb; state: Exp;
> > Initial revision
>
>
> I see, the strange thing is that it seem the first file checkin was
> unused.el.
>
> I would have expected emacs.c or something like this.
You will have to ask Jim. I presume the initial commit was a long
process, one file at a time, and it was done according to some
more-or-less arbitrary order. Don't forget that Emacs was maintained
for several years before the initial commit, so all the files were
already there.
> The question is how reliable is the conversion? It seem to work
> reasonable well for the part which concerns bzr, but I am not so sure
> about the RCS stuff.
The result is consistent with what the CVS repository shows, so I
don't understand why you have any doubts.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 11:02 historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?) Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-17 12:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-08-17 16:09 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2019-08-17 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
> commit ff9c6df4b0766bef72f6b1f4c8fca65737d9ad6b
> Author: Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
> Date: Sat Dec 14 16:58:10 1985 +0000
>
> Initial revision
AFAIK what you're seeing is the fact that Emacs's sources were not under
RCS before 1985 (I believe the corresponding commit history is lost) and
that there was no "email" recorded with users back in the RCS and CVS
days, so the corresponding identifiers were mapped (somewhat manually)
to the corresponding email address.
The closest to the early commit history we have is
https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history combined with the
ChangeLog files.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 11:02 historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?) Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:55 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
2019-08-17 18:34 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-19 15:07 ` Jim Blandy
2 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2019-08-17 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Jim Blandy
>>>>> "UB" == Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
UB> What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
UB> project and
UB>
UB> Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
UB>
UB> redhat in 1985, really?
UB>
UB> From wikipedia:
UB> Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
UB>
UB> This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the conversion
UB> process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
Jim Blandy is that good at predicting trends. Never doubt the man.
--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
@ 2019-08-17 18:34 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-19 15:07 ` Jim Blandy
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2019-08-17 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 518 bytes --]
UB> What puzzles me, is that there were so few commits when starting the
UB> project and
UB>
UB> Jim Blandy <jimb@redhat.com>
UB>
UB> redhat in 1985, really?
UB>
UB> From wikipedia:
UB> Founded in 1993, Red Hat has its corporate headquarters
UB>
UB> This is not really a serious issue, but I wondered whether the conversion
UB> process worked reliable, at least for the first commits.
> Jim Blandy is that good at predicting trends. Never doubt the man.
That, of course, explains everything.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?)
2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
2019-08-17 18:34 ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2019-08-19 15:07 ` Jim Blandy
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Jim Blandy @ 2019-08-19 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Emacs Devel
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 183 bytes --]
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:30 AM John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org> wrote:
> Jim Blandy is that good at predicting trends. Never doubt the man.
>
It's true. That's why I still use Emacs.
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 471 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
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2019-08-17 11:02 historial question: the first commits (is the conversion screwed?) Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 13:37 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 14:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-17 12:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-08-17 16:09 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-17 18:30 ` John Wiegley
2019-08-17 18:34 ` Uwe Brauer
2019-08-19 15:07 ` Jim Blandy
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