From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Michael Reilly Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Webapp/Plugin Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:11:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042dfda7594e0304c5f603e4 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1343560324 18653 80.91.229.3 (29 Jul 2012 11:12:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:12:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 29 13:12:04 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SvRPn-0000b7-1o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:12:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39885 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SvRPm-0004wx-AJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:12:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37304) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SvRPi-0004we-Ip for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:11:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SvRPg-00015c-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:11:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]:60836) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SvRPg-00015S-C3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:11:56 -0400 Original-Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so8842830pbb.0 for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:11:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=/61bHQqS9zFn3oDHURwcnIr4arLMuCI4L2RSDpXZnD4=; b=pfJ3t8hYGyPkK/XoLWgVggL9CpTYglk1G3GjKt3hqAa2YjfSj05Z/8hDOKWDHQP25/ Xs9fANtyWSnK6kMukUk45JYf+D98EE7o6kNr4fCj4DLLdx7asGWAw+osH4cZwwOm2lmW w/JnnZJ9I/CwV93sInr97++gayuvrBF7Twn9QrQz1YiD95fM9D00uOtyvyZAn7phv3Sw Spm7sA0yHFkygbAMbSJwuyqodL58VyY2kZHM6t+1EtDbTJIXbRSqEYiZgKsReCNMnTye A3Aw4fOctCzojihaAFUCNL4eGUmEhs3Np0vlmDIhylt3OnRsmKHSzwAjcO3TV3sKXrMp ZHAQ== Original-Received: by 10.66.88.131 with SMTP id bg3mr17502717pab.16.1343560315653; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.142.163.4 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:11:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlP6WcwASR+idO3PsHyhz8SBbUuYqjCBCeraiBUBbqBGQ/p6KvdD0xT7vrMCMML1x2LI24P X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.160.41 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151953 Archived-At: --f46d042dfda7594e0304c5f603e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > Someone tell me again why it is a bad idea to develop a Chrome/Chromium > (browser or Chrome OS) plugin that is essentially just the basic Emacs > bits > that we know and love? > > For one thing, I am concerned people might use it in Chrome, which is > nonfree software with a universal back door. If that caught on, it > would be a disaster in terms of our primary goal: giving users > freedom. > People use Emacs every day on Windows, which is nonfree software with a universal back door AND a malevolent management team antithetical to users freedom. > The underlying premise is that there are no "desktop" apps available on > this imagined system, just web apps and browser plugins. > > That IS a disaster, in terms of users' freedom. It pushes users > into total dependence on servers. We must oppose it, not accept it. > We've had this conversation before. I neither oppose not accept dependence on servers in general but use my own servers and encourage the development of server based communities where users' freedoms are embraced and preserved. The mobile computing paradigm, small computing devices that act as clients to data on servers, is a fact of life for the foreseeable future, as is giant companies which span the gamut from Masters of Evil (Microsoft/Apple/Facebook, imho) to not so evil (Google). Unfortunately, "not so evil" is probably as good as it will ever get. -pmr --f46d042dfda7594e0304c5f603e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Richard Stallma= n <rm= s@gnu.org> wrote:
=A0 =A0 Someone tell me again why it is a bad idea to dev= elop a Chrome/Chromium
=A0 =A0 (browser or Chrome OS) plugin that is essentially just the basic Em= acs bits
=A0 =A0 that we know and love?

For one thing, I am concerned people might use it in Chrome, which is=
nonfree software with a universal back door. =A0If that caught on, it
would be a disaster in terms of our primary goal: giving users
freedom.

People use Emacs every day on = Windows, which is nonfree software with a universal back door AND a malevol= ent management team antithetical to users freedom.
=A0
=A0 =A0 The underlying premise is that there are no "desktop" app= s available on
=A0 =A0 this imagined system, just web apps and browser plugins.

That IS a disaster, in terms of users' freedom. =A0It pushes user= s
into total dependence on servers. =A0We must oppose it, not accept it.
<= /blockquote>

We've had this conversation before. =A0= I neither oppose not accept dependence on servers in general but use my own= servers and encourage the development of server based communities where us= ers' freedoms are embraced and preserved.

The mobile computing paradigm, small computing devices = that act as clients to data on servers, is a fact of life for the foreseeab= le future, as is giant companies which span the gamut from Masters of Evil = (Microsoft/Apple/Facebook, imho) to not so evil (Google). =A0Unfortunately,= "not so evil" is probably as good as it will ever get.=A0

-pmr
--f46d042dfda7594e0304c5f603e4--