From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 09:56:08 +0200 Message-ID: References: <266155d4-f9c0-8ed3-8df5-32feea171076@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8141705a4b9c078" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="59406"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers , Dmitry Gutov To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 09:57:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9Ur-000FKZ-6I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:57:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41050 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9Uq-00029r-98 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50418) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9UM-0001kI-Cr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:56:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]:35800) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9UL-0005ys-3e; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:56:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id g4so6595618ljl.2; Sun, 03 May 2020 00:56:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KTmU7dC56IAxzpvG3KQbbNVkMpVMK+uVxLCr5rehxME=; b=jzG8nQ57aMU/+VyzwyamwCFrglVNbReL4cD/qSKKn/JSUT0CyiYuzrox/ynrraay+p ky8i93FlR0UhSYD3EzSEN/1+f6ylmQbIs568vL+6oBZZQ/fKGwxU25+LcSZ5N07dJ6gx tC8rigFyEQJnuWVn9WWtCSS8U+ESJO8vvlSGueMWN+r9eN9g60mTpmbLu+C0ICOlQvKR qqVnyA1oOI4Yl+nN0AN7XfNV7gd4Vg+lpukXKFMpQsLfFvxlEqdSepWJ/m+52jHzin0L Rq264S1QoQ5UdzP5n+u0ABTRKMMcgKpWdBfp1AZ/5j4UQoNMhwe9NEpNjR2BUyMDgZSy dRQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KTmU7dC56IAxzpvG3KQbbNVkMpVMK+uVxLCr5rehxME=; b=QsqmE3C2+Lp6FDcVq+rZenImGCA+4A1jQM2dxcbXEZ32i4yX9qEkBImN3uNXpXtEMc zyzWC64pSZbGIOlHaIU+zLvb1L0VAWZhKpW/3Qqf8uOz4JW8oG+/x/G/zbwbT88HmrV3 IIvolaDbfRTl2bD8U7a0Wn4ag8dUOObkQ24DFKzfaT379je1+wQWCOPbivxyuBhFDuu9 7HI2MgtIPcwqFRTvBUx3wBvXyn1s+rPOxFGrY5SLnaWVkQRHrZ2pMOem//dQhcMAJiDU I8q80VhmuH2ac2wf/3M+XNHf2aScULgMQv348JYH2tEmhHfYWS6q4VFyTH+KoPacgtfQ AdMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZhsXqW7nhpQPoU6v6y1/PuWeH7k+5q1lOr8lzBbgXkDDMo6DLv Isz/XadMNZhU8YffM4dABAlapp9RIH/bIO+ppnzBlXID8zo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKyd4afcTMKAk5gNYjZT0SNQSQ8+6FRSQm2AZx0Q5zkpiziBknm7XFuQ12efeLjOU4l+kpvfEqj7U8Rf8d9SLY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:2011:: with SMTP id s17mr6797097ljo.242.1588492594843; Sun, 03 May 2020 00:56:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22e; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248645 Archived-At: --000000000000d8141705a4b9c078 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > You're proposing that we adopt a policy of adding functions to Emacs's > standard name space as if that cost nothing. Any function that anyone > thinks provides the tiniest simplification, we would add. > Adding so many functions would be detrimental in many ways. > It would mean more names to document in the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual. > It would mean more pages to print the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual, making it cost more. > It would mean more text to maintain when something changes. These are all very valid points. I'm a bit surprised they come that late in the debate. I even had to formulate some of these myself as examples of refutations that addressed the central part of my argument. So, does that mean that once something "ships" with Emacs it's written in stone forever? What could be good rules of thumb to be able to rename or alias something? Kind regards, Philippe --000000000000d8141705a4b9c078 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> You're proposing that we adopt a policy of adding= functions to Emacs's
> standard name space as if that cost nothi= ng.=C2=A0 Any function that anyone
> thinks provides the tiniest simp= lification, we would add.

> Adding so many functions would be det= rimental in many ways.

> It would mean more names to documen= t in the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual.

> It would mean more pages = to print the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual, making it cost more.

> = It would mean more text to maintain when something changes.

These ar= e all very valid points. I'm a bit surprised they come that late in the= debate. I even had to formulate some of these myself as examples of refuta= tions that addressed the central part of my argument.

So, does that = mean that once something "ships" with Emacs it's written in s= tone forever? What could be good rules of thumb to be able to rename or ali= as something?

Kind regards,
Philippe
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