From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 09:47:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000205b1005a4b9a223" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="27239"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , tomas@tuxteam.de, Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 09:49:38 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9Na-0006zS-EC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:49:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36264 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9NZ-000695-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:49:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49026) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9M2-0004h9-Vy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:48:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x242.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::242]:38535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jV9M2-00059u-2J; Sun, 03 May 2020 03:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x242.google.com with SMTP id e25so6573236ljg.5; Sun, 03 May 2020 00:48:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mJq5Gdr1CXGJp4LicfXK2T0vYToOqzsMnPQ4KDNUKME=; b=E36stZcCPXJqIbmOgeJLLNGewZrRqCKf8l4HnADykeiBcDZHs8Q1Dyg3CsB8LyJOVn KyS+cbgI1yAtAc7gBfRlcb1qa7NS8J4AZiyRNqmY6mglKYQLaozUvL/apd6x0u5rTsxT 48ESxUqW1Hk9myYGcB5/+R5OLsYKN6QLx9GhsUUR+fjmp/Eag4zdBicf+n3WN2tNGEbm 9Kd+wvgQtfyeIR0N7YV5hh77sFC/tk0ChquPxnyB7pWiLyLwFZHV/qir4elBMy2ZSWnO N27+QAa0VAmxaJfbvsFlh5hCczCVO00jjDTi/6Ecr/Dm1/7TV56e7OAEtphguLIeA1DZ cg3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mJq5Gdr1CXGJp4LicfXK2T0vYToOqzsMnPQ4KDNUKME=; b=Gu9osCbjnjJrFeDZw7V2MpGV2QFJGlKeCdQ55Va4KeEuz6Zjy+JCOICbJ8LW79kqHK pMaU93PQEhG+49zU3Ye4y1c0ETFnHD6dmSZisitkTFYbtowcjQU/+FFAwtg9gXZaSkZR Jmqlu7Wtpn3aR6FgPNJmHAzwdSHQLpijUUcN4FZHKlV77C4wiXFGipHr5UZ7VPbHhWGy FNYgrimNxcR3NOZq7DVsrg1wxSxNLfiroXYK3cT1S8+E3r4Sy/Kr8B9h/L6sSA5UrFNM jFQcwm0O62ezjcw4xNmwiEtTDwO5ZxIsbcaZ3M042pTMx+x/rnQd0ILWV2se1ZgqVbPp L7Jg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaJ4Mrlr4Qc96nbkgTVByQOHj7VkvaXHniVP4HPvwPWGZpy1bLB BQALNDa2EncwYP3F4c4KHwY2rI2TXsGpi8/0obcLUfQfp00= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLk65b1a5OMfuj2VK4e9FcF//VLvkCB5p2u1LtQdfnSKDRXhGASvIEAiAvb3JT3sugFsz6M+iw3Cl98G3m4o8w= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8999:: with SMTP id c25mr7219798lji.73.1588492079486; Sun, 03 May 2020 00:47:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::242; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x242.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248643 Archived-At: --000000000000205b1005a4b9a223 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > I think you are making a distinction between names that are > core parts of the use of regexps, and names that contain 'regexp' > because they stand for something that uses a regexp somehow. > > Is that right? Yes. > And you expect the former to have names that start with 'regexp' > (although we have never had such a naming practice for data types). > > Is that right? Yes! :-) > Is the reason you expect the names to follow that pattern > that you are coming from a language that uses abstract object tyoes > where each type defines methods to operate on it? Do you wish you > could ask, "Show me the operations defined on type 'regexp'"? Yes, and also because in almost every other languages there are namespaces. Including other lisps (Scheme, Clojure). Even in Emacs Lisp the namespace concept is used, look at the all the `string-*` functions. > But if it is just to make C-h f completion on 'alist' include 'assoc', > we don't need real aliases. We could do it with aliaases that work > only in completion of function names. We could make an alias > ("alist" "assoc"), which would add "assoc" to the list > of completions of "alist". > > These aliases would avoid the downsides completely. Would they help you? Maybe, I see that as being a bit dangerous and unexpected for a lot of users tho. One expects plain text search in C-h f. --000000000000205b1005a4b9a223 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> I think you are making a distinction between names th= at are
> core parts of the use of regexps, and names that contain = 9;regexp'
> because they stand for something that uses a regexp s= omehow.
>
> Is that right?

Yes.
> And you expect the former to have names that start with 'regexp&= #39;
> (although we have never had such a naming practice for data ty= pes).
>
> Is that right?

Yes! :-)

> Is the rea= son you expect the names to follow that pattern
> that you are coming= from a language that uses abstract object tyoes
> where each type de= fines methods to operate on it?=C2=A0 Do you wish you
> could ask, &q= uot;Show me the operations defined on type 'regexp'"?

Y= es, and also because in almost every other languages there are namespaces. = Including other lisps (Scheme, Clojure). Even in Emacs Lisp the namespace c= oncept is used, look at the all the `string-*` functions.

> But if it is just to make C-h f completion on 'alist' include= 'assoc',
> we don't need real aliases.=C2=A0 We could do= it with aliaases that work
> only in completion of function names.= =C2=A0 We could make an alias
> ("alist" "assoc")= , which would add "assoc" to the list
> of completions of &= quot;alist".
>
> These aliases would avoid the downsides c= ompletely.=C2=A0 Would they help you?

Maybe, I see that as being a b= it dangerous and unexpected for a lot of users tho. One expects plain text = search in C-h f.
--000000000000205b1005a4b9a223--