From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [RFE] Migration to gitlab Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 13:31:04 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1552789070.5272.1@yandex.ru> <1552791707.5272.2@yandex.ru> <1552793646.5272.3@yandex.ru> <1552821396.21432.0@yandex.ru> <83imwhwf4x.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004df85f058471af0d" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="169345"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , theophilusx@gmail.com, Emacs developers , Konstantin Kharlamov , Dmitry Gutov To: Tadeus Prastowo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 19 13:31:59 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h6DuN-000hqs-6j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 13:31:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56626 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6DuM-0003lX-6p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:31:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6Du7-0003lL-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:31:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6Du6-0007cE-Dg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:31:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]:39675) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h6Du3-0007XR-F0; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:31:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id m13so14262072lfb.6; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 05:31:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gtYg1OjWxmjdwIZvDIEmWkqBSQ59xtfJeWG4W5aaC9I=; b=pABCAK6e4ollgySVwi9KvMDOJ43dh5tgq1C8X1XdL2uAA4qwkpwTXYD0A7aOm95z+K sjQUxpPLavMk2SX0pJloaxDtoQJZty4s6I7u5/w2U1bJCVR4uxNpAtuX6+vOXHWvogL9 EW06fPR3+zLISYLYLMhbPQslmkiHliFal487tCaEaXr9DpXByFx+0sJnX59amMxN8qdJ GqB7TCMN8yS5a0lZdrILN3vTX1Kx+QdIlqY5bvmqVk5evWYDmHuZU412rRQa13uEZBwm SIJm7fcG69r3epHBJh/9BJvgQz/2doxRaeraxi57JsZOOGrIigD2ErkOT4AcOyPKMWr4 LUyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gtYg1OjWxmjdwIZvDIEmWkqBSQ59xtfJeWG4W5aaC9I=; b=CC2VUisdkzntGp/oIiQh5OEEp6mEYN+bHyToyaKo8zeAjaODroPsdNphYiBvG+77gd FtSBKOLJXRBRvC7gL2IKjakEOsYXOnWFi7q5QhBe+fszzrU2ilcTw1sUKAAdTEZf8RBm lOEjQRrBlb2qVFFOrUfpl6lc2KSysOLTbrwDatY46glE6xQOUCDiGL9fdgedfvGTO31h OMs2UsGYe9siqQF5eDqFUApZKB0ULRiP7cehwHeKkRwGtZeR2YPeThpC1lERmCJTwoQO F0mpN3lBvBygckIVt7/nZEZQguKEsmsEtyaYKEKUHfAEWEh/1L9DF6LOSxF/1EW3uhLR vTjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXneEF0qwfyUp9+20zgliGBsDc/ZMlgo8CCb5Vhn3GsldO2Z3On 0LLzShX8T2MWR9ByOwJvATbVsS1cVlH0AKwQoQM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwCB6tXi8TcfYHv5RyR16Q3oCiOcNVIw5llnK73elUiZhtnsI0H1JJyfwZwue/8EOArEuxdJOq0e1ofafUEIDc= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ee11:: with SMTP id g17mr4129303lfb.117.1552998690844; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 05:31:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::12c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234364 Archived-At: --0000000000004df85f058471af0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > I believe this whole discussion is basically this: the ones who are used > to a gitlab workflow see the obvious benefits, and the ones who only use > the email workflow don't see what's so great about it because they always > find a manual/configuration-heavy way to achieve the same. > > > > I think the manual/configuration-heavy way is not very smooth and makes > _you_ work instead of the tools, when this effort could be better spent > improving Emacs. > > IMO, that point is moot when we are talking about making contributions > to Emacs. Instead of an RFE to migrate to gitlab, an RFE for a > package that, for example, enhances Emacs bug reporting so that it > becomes a CI tool would be better, no? Well, an Emacs custom-made CI tool will never be as complete, time-tested, maintainted (etc) than a tool that is used by hundred of thousands of users. Also if any of these gitlab/github/etc users want to contribute to Emacs, the time to start being "productive" is very low because they are used to this workflow (and most of them are not used to the mailing list workflow). I think the effort required to understand & use the mailing list workflow is quite significant at the start, then after a while you get used to it... but in my case I'd switch to the gitlab workflow as soon as it is available. It's very likely that others here would switch too if it was available. Best regards, Philippe --0000000000004df85f058471af0d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> I believe this whole discussion is basically this: = the ones who are used to a gitlab workflow see the obvious benefits, and th= e ones who only use the email workflow don't see what's so great ab= out it because they always find a manual/configuration-heavy way to achieve= the same.
>
> I think the manual/configuration-heavy way is not very smooth and make= s _you_ work instead of the tools, when this effort could be better spent i= mproving Emacs.

IMO, that point is moot when we are talking about making contributions
to Emacs.=C2=A0 Instead of an RFE to migrate to gitlab, an RFE for a
package that, for example, enhances Emacs bug reporting so that it
becomes a CI tool would be better, no?

Well= , an Emacs custom-made CI tool will never be as complete, time-tested, main= tainted (etc) than a tool that is used by hundred of thousands of users. Al= so if any of these gitlab/github/etc users want to contribute to Emacs, the= time to start being "productive" is very low because they are us= ed to this workflow (and most of them are not used to the mailing list work= flow).

I think the effort required to understand &= amp; use the mailing list workflow is quite significant at the start, then = after a while you get used to it... but in my case I'd switch to the gi= tlab workflow as soon as it is available. It's very likely that others = here would switch too if it was available.

Best re= gards,
Philippe
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