From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 13:10:00 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005eab2a05a4a85859" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="122261"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , tomas@tuxteam.de, Richard Stallman , Emacs developers To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 13:11:12 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUq36-000Vjk-FU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 13:11:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56540 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUq35-0001MC-Id for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 07:11:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38268) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUq2U-0008Hr-2C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 07:10:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUq2T-0001VZ-HW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 07:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::135]:41100) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUq2Q-0001QJ-2z; Sat, 02 May 2020 07:10:30 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id a9so356396lfb.8; Sat, 02 May 2020 04:10:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FDQ+hZ70R/ME7pj3Azr0l687YYJfuQDhEAXOKxqN+AQ=; b=NOU9ithMVlTfHZ/vDP+B+L09w25tNfupCzDEFCIiqDmfed8uaLxQVwm0AR8IVI2MOO zlPLEBj3L3sGEmZW3eXuzqvhbDnUmafl9xtj4cDBskAV5H2l2bfi8uB5mQSsAPWjfj8/ MJiPNilD+TWBvGJSgIZp2Vs+F+iQ+vmxF/hVwbwCVUMbIsiMdtQDDnmRCt/WSabxccRS MTsOAqa7ykI6LVMlAgV6ueB9P+ImRTVsoaBGRemn5iaJitmyDIh/Y8w2HRLPOCNMzR20 6jMzfLrPWRjtm9LoCIHK0JWyEYPbv7FpD6t6kIzvXxBCfr0LRXaA8AWMQx4cRjampcIE Owag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FDQ+hZ70R/ME7pj3Azr0l687YYJfuQDhEAXOKxqN+AQ=; b=Sh2FKT861EiIdlCEKPOJ89iU0MWpTsdem+3pcsfuAAKaHf8BRqLw9FmyCluPe7mxNA b7GNJDQSkI2fHuj/9ocJbwSE73yf7KiyLR7t9c8RkbjwkY/L1WvIvd4xtxmCj3oPlj9s ksVOzyEgYcpqN6TI7XvEv4qQMRRq5NAZcwYMS1JZ576A/6HrvSbONRm5O0q3nTeJN37q M9wSdZ/Q6kR4OgYGTVRqlcl+JJDOd5iiha4vNsbZlh9NeyqGz3ze91HFqjYskBDyWLXp mWkYA28H3Thfq1np9FBQg0rdFeeBOylP6ciqGRAblXx9RVn06dSjBXAP93lx+bDxDoH2 lVXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub8/EpiYny15/vfqWo1zL5VRFy7DqSFiRJCZrUhxt0k79eV/aHJ zc+8DCiDLsirMaCfSL/bo3MJjKEL3cc5dsg807E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIdwUqz9iUZqP034RuR3E0V0laLxSDrl0kp1GIPx3Mjkdthfsmj8jKr8yHUoKG9PLQkIylHtr+AUWtOT+rINU8= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4832:: with SMTP id 18mr5403095lft.162.1588417827612; Sat, 02 May 2020 04:10:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::135; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x135.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::135 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248402 Archived-At: --0000000000005eab2a05a4a85859 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > If I take that entry manual and then toggle read only and then "M-x > keep-lines -- function" I end up with: > > > > -- Function: assoc key alist &optional testfn > > -- Function: rassoc value alist > > -- Function: assq key alist > > -- Function: alist-get key alist &optional default remove testfn > > -- Function: rassq value alist > > -- Function: assoc-default key alist &optional test default > > -- Function: copy-alist alist > > -- Function: assq-delete-all key alist > > -- Function: assoc-delete-all key alist > > -- Function: rassq-delete-all value alist > > > > That's what I would like to get out of the manual easily. > > If I may, it sounds like you have described a process which a (small) GNU > Elpa > package could replicate easily. I for one would install it. In the > Common Lisp > hyperspec pages with this kind of information are found in "the string > dictionary", > "the sequences dictionary". I think demanding namespacing for > discoverability > is mixing up two not entirely orthogonal but also not entirely dependent > things. Interesting point. I think that could work, but wouldn't it be much easier if the language itself was self-documenting? Sure we can create indexes and manuals and all that, but I find it much more logical for the language to simply self-index and self-document itself by naming things "logically" in the language itself. But yeah, you're right. Eventually either all of those who think like me will create even more `s.el`, `f.el` and friends, or they'll write manual helpers, or they'll simply give up. Philippe --0000000000005eab2a05a4a85859 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> If I take that entry manual and then toggle read on= ly and then "M-x keep-lines -- function" I end up with:
>
>=C2=A0 -- Function: assoc key alist &optional testfn
>=C2=A0 -- Function: rassoc value alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: assq key alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: alist-get key alist &optional default remove te= stfn
>=C2=A0 -- Function: rassq value alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: assoc-default key alist &optional test default<= br> >=C2=A0 -- Function: copy-alist alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: assq-delete-all key alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: assoc-delete-all key alist
>=C2=A0 -- Function: rassq-delete-all value alist
>
> That's what I would like to get out of the manual easily.

If I may, it sounds like you have described a process which a (small) GNU E= lpa
package could replicate easily.=C2=A0 I for one would install it.=C2=A0 In = the Common Lisp
hyperspec pages with this kind of information are found in "the string=
dictionary",
"the sequences dictionary".=C2=A0 I think demanding namespacing f= or discoverability
is mixing up two not entirely orthogonal but also not entirely dependent th= ings.

Interesting point. I think that could= work, but wouldn't it be much easier if the language itself was self-d= ocumenting?

Sure we can create indexes and manuals= and all that, but I find it much more logical for the language to simply s= elf-index and self-document itself by naming things "logically" i= n the language itself.

But yeah, you're right.= Eventually either all of those who think like me will create even more `s.= el`, `f.el` and friends, or they'll write manual helpers, or they'l= l simply give up.

Philippe
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