From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Philippe Vaucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 09:38:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <87wo5mc04t.fsf@fastmail.fm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="100232"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Joost Kremers , Emacs developers To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 09:39:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXK4h-000Q0e-G2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 09:39:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41472 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXK4g-0003Ja-2K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:39:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38070) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXK49-0002eh-IS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:38:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::229]:46619) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXK48-0008Is-RX; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:38:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id f18so4038914lja.13; Sat, 09 May 2020 00:38:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yYf4AHIrV+QzPQbR1PvOVL1CyvICh3JxT49yxZMWGUs=; b=Ub3r9C0D3waZ3c6wftixjXtdAEAWz0rNbkimIy8gwPl89CsRSG8Xhecm7yW5iiExpf tzw8rzrasdPgsaHWQWI9aUTlxO88g+fnQcjLCEH0Exm8+H8exR+N1I99Gb+n2CZeufL/ ZrDQWcv3VlJcHjt4oFeIgrvx2zqA/Eyo8HGWHMbLxjbLhz16ORkLp0MRaHTtmgpzIaTC wKLGep2yEQBpkhHS+NniKOm6bUuOZGEfJZP99W7pn+SpEnhrwR0i5eC0XXYvURvMjkNt dEP1afkj81U0rdlKJmvVZS9pB6VagYrCOdxYX5nfb0wl01U2kWqDcRSU0qTfCT0v6b3B dnEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yYf4AHIrV+QzPQbR1PvOVL1CyvICh3JxT49yxZMWGUs=; b=G1y5tZIXStQ+3q9YTpvwgTDJ7IBdW+G9kO+D5qJQrQfEaIqjybtlmGWSCrl7iYrWnG RJzmNYBkleQ3FTeai7qlU2CeRL9YxqTLD5fIRcYXVxwlTqQc9v3UFPHDOtVu9f9XC4IP l27962zHKOMZWs4gMUZ7zeaO0ymY0TTT0pImsuxTYF1rAQFrFtBB6ofS7Fo+4/ehA3e0 xUp6cYmfzACjrXoflbjjc+Eiq8waLiX8s76JwlgO7ImNagIlVBdRD22nxghaTetC6z+I WzcXRia8hNRbVMVWdzohOfu1DAr6HJtJa+EmBkXRn0Zxr17IMSJw5s4jlss1OSHW0JLZ GqPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533N4M/K1nJdgXfFMFuERY/58eYYBWknErGV0JjtPgd6hQAkd4ZD 0oklvB7h5sUwlaGnSx5rKBd+b2kG9djVUiuV6IZnXBWNzBo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzeSHASkuuG+Q/jIiLmmzfWjHT6TskJNqszPutA8Y6iAnr9SBJVPUEtpaSWggQqAQTBmkArBXpAYytTpHtMIwM= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7e04:: with SMTP id z4mr4194281ljc.50.1589009910414; Sat, 09 May 2020 00:38:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::229; envelope-from=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x229.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249364 Archived-At: > > But you just described what dash does. ;-) It is just a collection > > of list-handling functions such as they exist in modern functional > > programming languages. If you're used to thinking in this paradigm > > and then come (back) to Emacs Lisp, it feels like a hopelessly > > clunky language. `dash.el` was written to remedy this. > > That sounds like they could be useful facilities. Since they are real > features, not mere aliases and trivialities, they would not have the > main flaw of s.el. Richard, I think this is a good opportunity for you to actually go and really see what dash.el is and also what s.el is, maybe even code a little with them. Your comments really make it look like you vaguely understand what they are about. I'm sorry if that's not the case. But what is more disturbing is that you take strong positions about them that are in conflict with Stefan Monnier for example. These tensions needs to be resolved. Maybe Eli can facilitate this? Except if I missed it, here are the questions I didn't see an answer to: - As far as I know you are the only one who objected strongly against s.el in ELPA (others please voice your opinion if you think like Richard). This created an atmosphere of people fearing that you would use your authority to "veto" such adoption despite Stefan Monnier & others wanting s.el in ELPA. I think you need to clarify your position/power here. - For most users, dash.el and s.el are very similar in nature. dash.el is already in ELPA. If we refuse s.el, isn't it inconsistent? What about the message we send? Thanks for taking the time to address these. Philippe