From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thibaut Verron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:04:06 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9045"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 10:05:37 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kp6H2-0002Ei-K0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 10:05:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59356 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp6H1-0007Zo-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 04:05:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp6Ff-0006Vd-FX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 04:04:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb29.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29]:40374) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kp6Fc-0002KD-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 04:04:11 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb29.google.com with SMTP id t13so18147362ybq.7 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:04:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LQHg6GeCITpvdV8z1RlBhHfkphUx7WRe1E5jZJPkgtk=; b=N1oYih2Cow6FYo06KGMEaVt8DAmASBWJa+4Sqs6amIKxijA27y0S/VIlnbjYqav9BD yo9gi6YEV3gn9jSCvnXdTBX1Ax5HEPO03UfzT6EcpWbKQi0EPVMSlimL/V8GHGMJYSgE v17ohdpFOYpgdgPtOeVG8IBQwkbeghIPfrOlhNW17xO156PiTedMknT0hSGrEcT1mqzk +TyhN6j70bYBzl0X6bpmHm9XhA3u8WUmAvLXw4kjcll0rQXivFNQL2Jrr9MeaGe9BFMe me37Pc5f/mzwP88r7U83Hwwq8Rjfc/Jx6pZ5D1XEQDxnsjUX/VuwtziIz1EJj1ax7WTf upVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LQHg6GeCITpvdV8z1RlBhHfkphUx7WRe1E5jZJPkgtk=; b=EBNfQbaE1Bd8eQ0T32HeK0uNyFMGm2jyXAcPX21zgoxQ2rw5g1IPG3uYesHkmYwPco Jkfb3KCU49ThIcxCfDWBcajDR6FB+H+Fx0+xoUwP6Y6JLMrB+XUaY6QrKdkZuPOT+3rA dV23PjWm1DMQwuILufb79ojen03inKi3V27oI3R4Kg+ka1nUZLysxXStTCqNaUISmPiY VJ996ZU9l4afJGlw2meBWH4Yndb8m448PIdQaw3uuKBDGPUfg7wLC5S6qzmMAlAUNu+u tKoUJa2Zsd+tgF3TIPRVLBf+6g5aGNBDa3uZnm8yf31njEf/PzdERmiowH8HAD6ospDt aKtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533I9HFzNzUeD1Hcd2rX5fR8ydtAxdqpREwywIYnepG21fe/FC0r 71exUmWpoEWnjwCCEtMDSONLxo22oeDqHK2SCb8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzYUt/y8qzgT263ALnvhJqtmC09pagCIplXQLjsMH/izG4Ks2NDJSLmEDxJKzx6sWXUXpI9NLzpJT3EANSKOz0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:6e43:: with SMTP id j64mr42472314ybc.183.1608023046644; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:04:06 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 2002:a05:7110:21cd:b029:2f:46d6:ecce with HTTP; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 01:04:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b29; envelope-from=thibaut.verron@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb29.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260854 Archived-At: I agree with Cl=C3=A9ment, for a total of 4 cents. Also, I don't think that there is a clear majority of users disabling the toolbar: instead, it looks like a majority of the respondents (which do not necessarily form a representative sample) disable all three bars and the splash screen, with a few disabling only the toolbar. So if anything, the take-away is that it's not a one-size-fits-all situation. On the topic of enabling/disabling ui elements, I'm curious about the visible-bell answer. Could it be that the question asked if they disabled the visible bell, to which the logical answer for those setting 'visible-bell to t (in order to disable the audible bell) is no. In this case, the only yes would be users either disabling all bells, or keeping the default bell AND knowing about it. It would be interesting to know how many users would want to disable the bell altogether if they knew that it is possible. 2020-12-15 7:24 UTC+01:00, Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel = : > On 12/15/20 12:30 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> Of 7.3K respondents, 5K disable toolbars, which is more than two >> thirds. So perhaps toolbars should default to off? I know toolbars >> were all the rage in the 90s, but that's apparently not the case now. >> >> Opinions? > > 2=C2=A2: keep them, though with prettier icons. It's trivial to disable = them, > but it's not trivial to discover that they exist if they are disabled by > default. > (FWIW, this is a general philosophy: I think Emacs should ship with a lot > more stuff enabled by default, maybe with a spartan-mode to revert to the > current defaults.) > > >